“I don’t like country & western, I don’t like rock music… I don’t like rockabilly! I don’t like much really do I? But what I do like, I love passionately!!”: CHRIS LOWE
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK was one of the last media platforms to interview the late German electronic pioneer Klaus Schulze shortly before his passing on 26 April 2022.
Klaus Schulze lived in his own cosmic sequenced world and his albums ‘Timewind’, ‘Moondawn’ and ‘Mirage’ are still held up as fine examples of The Berlin School. Klaus Schulze said to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK: “Every album I do is my best – everyone has its time and its own history and circumstances, though there are some albums that are more in my mind than others are! Really, when you work on something it is the latest and best you’ve ever done and so it always is my favourite record. It’s as simple as that.”
Wider interest in Klaus Schulze’s music was renewed after he worked with Hans Zimmer on ‘Grains of Sand’ on the ‘Dune’ soundtrack; “The world has finally caught up with a true pioneer” said Zimmer in 2021, “A master, an influence and influencer on countless others, still connecting us all with a deep sense of humanity and mystery”
Literally never one to sit still, Schulze left behind a vast portfolio of work including material that was unreleased for various reasons. Following up his posthumously issued final album ‘Deus Arrakis’, the poignant closing piece of which was ‘Der Hauch des Lebens’ (translated into English as “The Breath of Life”), ‘101, Milky Way’ is a real treasure from Klaus Schulze’s archives.
The album began at the end of 2008 as a soundtrack commission from a German film production company for a documentary about computer hackers. Klaus Schulze being Klaus Schulze ended up creating a complete album. The eventual documentary film ‘Hacker’ directed by Alex Biedermann only ended up using small sections of the music as a soft backdrop.
With the blessing of his estate, ‘101, Milky Way’ is now available for the first time; comprising of three lengthy pieces and two comparatively shorter ones, this previously lost album is a fitting way of maintaining his legacy. Across 15 minutes, ‘Infinity’ offers a grand sweeping ambience with occasional indigenous vocal chant samples and violin that gradually builds and then descends into a bubbly otherness. Only 5 minutes long, ‘Alpha’ recalls Jean-Michel Jarre’s more atmospheric moments.
While sequencer patterns have been notably absent so far, these drift in during the second third of the most classic Schulze of the pieces ‘Multi’; this goes on a hypnotic journey of over half an hour complete with spacey string machines, and then chattering percussive interventions and cosmic pulses for the drive into the home straight. The much shorter ‘Meta’ follows the atmospheric path over gentle rhythmic backbeat before over 18 minutes, ‘Uni’ offers a sedate intro before it bursts into a cacophony of buzzier and more jagged sounds and textures.
Some might not be so keen on the digital elements on ‘101, Milky Way’ when compared to his imperial phase albums but as Schulze said to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK: “I have spent many years fighting the various technical aspects from so many different machines that I absolutely enjoy turning on everything – and Boom, it’s all there. I certainly would not want to go back to having to tune everything… or patch my way through every single part of an analogue synth”.
A welcome release that captures the essence of 21st Century Klaus Schulze, ‘101, Milky Way’ is like a greeting from wherever he is now in the universe and fittingly continues his vast electronic legacy. No doubt there will be more to come from his unreleased archives and the man himself would approve.
In memory of Klaus Sculze 1947 – 2022
‘101, Milky Way’ is released by SPV as a gatefold double LP Edition, CD and download
Edinburgh-born singer-songwriter Dot Allison first sprang to fame when she appeared on ‘Top Of The Pops’ as a member of ONE DOVE in 1993 singing their No24 hit ‘Breakdown’ live.
ONE DOVE were a moody Glaswegian trio comprised of Dot Allison, Ian Carmichael and Jim McKinven. Their only album ‘Morning Dove White’ took its title from the Native American name of Elvis Presley’s grandmother and was co-produced by the late Andrew Weatherall. The album was unique in the sphere of post-Acid House electronic dance music but despite reaching No30 in the UK album chart, ONE DOVE imploded.
1999 saw the release of her debut solo album ‘Afterglow’ and showcased a broad range of styles with the haunting Weimar chill of ‘In Winter Still’ making a fine closer. It also included a songwriting collaboration with Hal David, best known for his catalogue of tunes written with Burt Bacharach but also the best song from the James Bond franchise ‘We Have All The Time In The World’.
In 2000, Dot Allison’s voice was all over television thanks to DEATH IN VEGAS’ ‘Dirge’ on which she guested being used in Levi’s ‘Twisted’ commercial; it subsequently appeared the soundtrack of a number of Hollywood movies including ‘Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2’ and ‘The Last House on the Left’.
Her second album ‘We Are Science’ in 2002 flirted with electroclash and indie rock but as her website suggests, “She revolts against what she has done before, to evolve and not just occupy the same space”. After several more albums and taking a career break, Dot Allison returned in 2021 to release the nature inspired folk-minded ‘Heart-Shaped Scars’, an antidote to the stress of these turbulent times co-produced with Fiona Cruickshank.
After the haunting beauty of the 2023 follow-up ‘Consciousology’ which included her first electronic based track in while ‘220Hz’, Dot Allison is back on the collaboration trail again having previously worked with the likes of Kevin Shields, Paul Weller, Scott Walker, Darren Emerson and MASSIVE ATTACK.
Dot Allison’s new musical project is ALL SEEING DOLLS with Anton Newcombe, best known as the leader of the Californian rock band BRIAN JONESTOWN MASSACRE. The creative partnership developed remotely and while the album ’Parallel’ will be out in early 2025, the single ‘That’s Amazing Grace’ is already public.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK had the pleasure of a career spanning chat with Dot Allison about ONE DOVE, her solo work and ALL SEEING DOLLS…
You first became known as a member of ONE DOVE, how do you look back on that period?
With a fondness … I got my hands dirty in the studio learning to program on an LC3 Mac and Cubase … messing about with our desk and we did manual automation at the desk… but we went from quarter inch tape and chinagraph pencils and razors to ADATs… don’t need to do that again!
ONE DOVE’s only album ‘Morning Dove White’ was co-produced by Andrew Weatherall but the radio mixes for the singles ‘White Love’ and ‘Breakdown’ were done by Stephen Hague, I can’t think of two more contrasting personalities to be in a studio with?
Stephen Hague was recommended by the label but we did like that he had worked with NEW ORDER… we all managed to meet in the middle.
ONE DOVE had this esoteric approach but ‘Breakdown’ charted and got you onto ‘Top Of The Pops’, what was that like for you?
Utterly terrifying… it’s only when the cameras are all on you going out to millions of viewers you realise whether you are really cut out of that level of exposure.
‘Why Don’t You Take Me?’ is an underrated gem, can you remember its genesis?
I can… it was improvised in the studio and then our version was sent to Andrew for his interpretative magic.
The B-side of ‘Why Don’t You Take Me?’ was a cover of Dolly Parton’s ‘Jolene’, how did that idea come about?
ONE DOVE were always country music fans… it felt fitting because of that.
How close did the second ONE DOVE album come to completion?
Not that close in reality… just early versions of a few songs knocking about…
Your debut solo album ‘Afterglow’ came out in 1999 and one of the singles ‘Close Your Eyes’ was a co-write with Paul Statham and Pascal Gabriel who later worked with Dido, was that was a musical route that you could have taken?
I had written with them before that later collaboration happened… my publishers hooked us up, probably more because of Pascal’s pioneering work in electronic dance music…
What was it like working with the lyrical legend Hal David on ‘Did I Imagine You?’
It was mind-blowing and a huge humbling honour… he was very interesting and open to ideas… we worked over fax at first! He wrote the chords and the entire melody and he sent words … he said he had gotten stuck on a line or two and asked me to write a dummy lyrical chorus which I did, this then catalysed other ideas from him… he kept a line from my dummy chorus in the song, which was nice
That ‘Afterglow’ period saw you produce some interesting B-sides ‘Melted’ which was like a clubby PORTISHEAD and ‘Mr. Voyeur’ which sampled Gary Numan’s ‘Metal’, was there still a conflict between making “the art” and being accessible?
Oh yes… I never planned to be hugely accessible tbh… hence successfully remaining relatively underground. I guess I just made songs I felt were ‘me’ at the time without modifying them to attempt to make them anything else.
Your second solo album ‘We Are Science’ in 2002 and appeared to be a lot less inhibited?
I think over time you grow into yourself in a way … that was just part of that journey
‘Substance’ was a ‘We Are Science’ highlight and popular in within the short-lived “electroclash” scene that emerged, what inspired it?
It just flowed on the spot when coming up with the ideas… I felt perhaps I am / always was mining for something with feeling, with substance but in that tune retaining a kind of deadpan aspect to it at the same time.
How did ‘Aftersun’ with MASSIVE ATTACK for the film ‘Danny The Dog’ come about and why was it never officially released as such?
It was a song that came out of some sessions we did … I was glad it made it onto that soundtrack and I think it’s on a compilation of theirs too.
‘Pioneers 01’ in 2012 saw you collaborate with a large number of musicians and producers, what are your favourite memories of the recording?
That was less meant to be an official album release and more a sonic experiment to be used as needle drop. I have only done one album like that one, it’s not technically a solo album more a collection of sonic moments…
You’ve also sung on a Scott Walker track ‘Bull’ and before that recorded a cover of ‘Montague Terrace (In Blue)’ for 2009’s ‘Room 7 1⁄2’, that must have been an eye opener?
Scott liked my records and my voice and he asked me to collaborate on a couple of things including his ‘Drifting’ & Tilting’ shows at The Barbican in 2012… he said about my voice “Great Pipes”, I’ll cherish that!
You have described your two most recent solo albums ‘Heart-Shaped Scars’ and ‘Consciousology’ as being companion records, in what way has your creative process altered from ONE DOVE and your early solo recordings to where you are now and what you write about in this more acoustic organic template?
It has changed hugely…. in composing I lose myself either at the piano, the guitar or the ukulele and record hundreds of voice notes as songs take shape. I redraft lyrics repeatedly, whereas I was just scratching the surface in some ways earlier on … although with ‘Fallen’ with ONE DOVE, I wrote the chords and a ton of the topline was improved at the microphone in a kind of trance…
You worked with Paul Weller in 2009 for ‘Love’s Got Me Crazy’? Was it this connection that led to you working with Hannah Peel on the string arrangements for several songs on ‘Heart-Shaped Scars’?
It was … he raved about Hannah Peel and rightly so he recommended I reach out to her, she is AMAZING!
So how did the electronic instrumental ‘220Hz’ get into the basket as it were?
Oh god… well I composed it at 30,000ft in the air on a plane to LA… slightly giddy on low O2 probably… I programmed the whole crazy atonal dissonant rollercoaster in logic on that plane and then I had it trigger my Buchla Easel synth and did a workshop with the LCO after that and then recorded with them at Air Studios for a day … and ‘220hz’ is the result. Before pressing record, Fi Cruickshank pressed the ‘talk back’ button and said to them “Good luck!”; they did amazingly as Talia Morley managed to orchestrate it which was no mean feat as it was pretty untethered to any specific signature / grid of any kind really. I love the LCO’s experimental open mindedness .. thank heavens for them!
Your new musical partnership is with Anton Newcombe of BRIAN JONESTOWN MASSACRE as ALL SEEING DOLLS and an album called ‘Parallel’. What is your combined creative approach?
Anton said to me “My secret plan is to set you free”, it is one of the most beautiful things anyone I have ever worked with has ever said to me… I hope to do that same for him on the other side of that mirror… he is brilliant and we just seemed to align on ideas and inventions.
What do think have you been able to achieve as ALL SEEING DOLLS that you may not have been able to do with your other work?
I guess creativity is a bit like a hall of mirrors … the further you step in, the more ‘rooms’ you see. We are hopefully creating our own slightly psychedelic room, I hope people find it interesting too.
From your vast back catalogue, are there any songs that those who may have liked ONE DOVE but since lost contact, should listen to by way of a catch up?
Thank you for asking – I would suggest ‘Love Died In Our Arms’ – Lee Scratch Perry remix (his final ever mix he did), ‘The Haunted’ – a duet with folk singer Amy Bowman, ‘Double Rainbow’ and ‘Unchanged’.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Dot Allison
Special thanks to Alix Wenmouth at Wasted Youth PR
ALL SEEING DOLLS ’Parallel’ will be released in February 2025 by ‘a’ Records
‘Heart-Shaped Scars’, ‘Consciousology’ and other Dot Allison releases are available digitally via https://dotallison.bandcamp.com/
The recent release of ‘Ninja Legends 1983-1989’ by Cherry Red Records presented a deep dive into the creative legacy of cult Japanese act FRANK CHICKENS.
The comprehensive 4CD boxed set contained their first three albums and a compilation of BBC live sessions recorded for John Peel, Richard Skinner and Janice Long; it acts as a perfect (re)introduction to world of FRANK CHICKENS.
The classic duo of Kazuko Hohki and Kazumi Taguchi gained a cult following with their unique blend of pop, punk and traditional Japanese music with their humorous quirky songs often challenging racial and gender stereotypes to break down cultural barriers. Their best known songs in the UK are ‘Blue Canary’ and ‘We Are Ninja (Not Geisha)’
FRANK CHICKENS continue to be proudly led by Kazuko Hohki and have evolved into a multi-national ensemble with over 20 members. She kindly chatted to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK and spoke Frankly about getting Chickenized…
Today, South East Asian culture is now everywhere and part of the everyday, be it in cinema, music, gaming, food or fashion. But when FRANK CHICKENS started, Britain was a bit different?
People didn‘t know many Japanese words / things which are now very well known – like sushi, karaoke, matcha, udon, soba, anime, manga and even ninja! We could say anything about Japan and they believed us.
How did you come to the attention on John Peel and become one of his favourite acts?
John Peel must have been familiar with David Toop and Steve Beresford’s music in THE FLYING LIZARDS, THE SLITS. Also his producer, John Walters liked us and he came to see the performance of my other group called JAPANESE AMERICAN TOY THEATRE OF LONDON (JATTOL) which did a pastiche of Hollywood films using wind-up toys. He recommended JATTOL to John Peel for his birthday party’s act. So we went to his house somewhere outside of London and met his family and friends. I don’t remember much but have a very warm feeling about it so must have been a very nice party!
What inspired you do a cover of ‘Blue Canary’?
Sorry, I cannot remember. I have a vague feeling that the karaoke of that song might have been in one of the cassette tapes which I had bought in Thailand while on holiday. We started to use it in our gig and realised it was a very popular song. We were vaguely familiar with the tune as we had that song as a hit, sung by Izumi Yukimura in 50s. The tempo was much slower, though. Recently FRANK CHICKENS were invited to perform at somebody’s retirement party in the village hall in Devon. He is the collector of FRANK CHICKENS music but especially liked that song. We performed there in the same way as we did in 80s (Kazumi and I with toys) and he danced with his wife. Very sweet.
‘We Are Frank Chickens’ was your album title and song but ‘We Are Ninja (Not Geisha)’ became your signature tune and an independent chart hit. You have probably told the story dozens of times but what inspired it and did people get the message?
David Toop was one of the people who introduced hip hop culture in NY to the UK. He was telling us about the street scene in NY where black kids take out their ghetto blasters and rap over the music. It was a process of reclaiming the music and we all thought it was wonderful. David compared that to Japanese Karaoke scene where everybody could start to sing and feel like a pop star, using ready-made music. Steve Beresford and David suggested to us we should make a rap song.
I was reading a popular novel about ninja at that time. As rapping was often about boasting, I thought our rapping could be ninjas boasting their skills. Ninja and Geisha uses the same character (ja-sha) so the concept of “we are Ninja not Geisha” came naturally. We were aware of English expectation on Japanese women (demure, submissive etc) and wanted to comment on it. However it is not a message song, it is primarily for fun and intrigue. Some people get our feminist stance but some people just enjoy it as an interesting creation.
The first two albums ‘We Are Frank Chickens’ and ‘Get Chickenized’ were made in collaboration with David Toop and Steve Beresford, both from THE FLYING LIZARDS, was the creative process with them as fun as it would appear on paper? How do you look back on that classic period of FRANK CHICKENS?
Steve, David and I all belonged to LONDON MUSICIANS COLLECTIVE around that time. LONDON MUSICIANS COLLECTIVE was the first place to visit for me after arriving in England in 1978. It was an amazing place where we paid the membership fee of £7 for a year and could use the vast space – an unused warehouse for the National Rail – for a rehearsal or gig , free of charge. The members were mainly improvising musicians but there were some visual artists, dancers, theatre makers and performance artist. A lot of experimentations and playing – sometimes fooling – around was happening and FRANK CHICKENS came out of that. FRANK CHICKENS had to become less ‘fooling around’ as we were making pop songs but the spirit was always there.
FRANK CHICKENS were involved in supporting The GLC and Red Wedge, was the socio-political climate of the times in the UK become a particular motivator for you creatively? Did you feel like activists as well as artists?
Around that time, people’s interest in society or politics seemed more direct than now. Pop music was more keenly connected to social issues. We were influenced by that and thought it is so good compared to Japanese pop scenes where songs were mainly about lost love. I don’t think we could call us activists but we wanted to contribute something to change the world into a better place somehow.
Kazumi Taguchi took a break from FRANK CHICKENS in 1988 and there was a new singer Atsuko Kamura on the third album ‘Club Monkey’, with this reconfiguration, was this a good reason to make a fresh start with new producers? How did you find adapting to working with new people?
The producers of ‘Club Monkey’ (Grant Showbiz, Justin Adams and Clive Bell) were all old friends with whom we have been working together around that time, especially Grant who has been our sound man since we started. ‘Club Monkey’ was based on our Christmas musical produced by Peter Jenner who was our manager at that time and coming out from “Flying Lecords” (silly joke!) run by him. Peter was a good friend of Grant so it seemed more natural to work with Grant and his team then. I was very excited to work with Atsuko as she is from the legendary first all-female Japanese punk band POLKA DOTS FIRE BRIGADE.
This first phase of FRANK CHICKENS is now documented on this ‘Ninja Legends 1983-1989’ boxed set with Cherry Red, are you happy how it has been packaged and that there is a potential new audience to be found?
I am very happy with the packaging. Martina Elliott at Cherry Red worked very hard enduring many correspondences with me! I hope it reaches new audience especially as we are also digitally releasing all the tracks from the box set and singles of ‘We Are Ninja’ and its remix called ‘Ninja (Betamax Double Vision mix)’ remixed by Betamax, the drummer for THE COMET IS COMING.
Did the ‘Ninja Legends 1983-1989’ boxed set trigger off any nice memories that you had maybe forgotten about?
We had a brilliant designer called David Thomas with whom I used to share the communal housing in Archway. He designed our first two album covers and several single covers. The artworks of the covers of the box and 3 CD cases in this box set use his designs, so the box set has become a portable mini-exhibition of his work (which reminds me of Marcel Duchamp’s ‘Museum In a Box’. I like Duchamp as he is a real Punk!). This box set has made me realise again how good his design was.
You hosted ‘Kazuko’s Karaoke Klub’ for Channel 4 in 1989, it was sort of ahead of its time as because of Karaoke going into pubs and actual dedicated venues later, it led to more people wanting to be popstars and auditioning for those talent shows that were everywhere in the 21st Century?
I like the idea that everybody can fantasise being a pop star as it is a good exercise for our imagination and if Karaoke has helped people do that, that’s not a bad thing, but I hope they realise that the reality (of being a pop star) is quite boring (though I don’t actually know as I’ve never been a real pop star, but I have sniffed a little bit).
Although ‘Kazuko’s Karaoke Klub’ was exposing a Japanese cultural phenomenon to a British audience, the show really suited the eccentric British mindset… the episode with Frank Sidebottom and John Cooper-Clarke was really quite surreal don’t you think?
I love eccentric British mindset. It creates and accommodates the real multiculturalism! There are a lot of them about in my proximity though they are not famous. They help me to keep being creative, I believe.
When Spike Milligan was on ‘Kazuko’s Karaoke Klub’, you were really trying to hold back your laughter as he wasn’t answering questions conventionally and going off script… would you like to have done more shows if only to meet more characters like him or was being on TV regularly not for you?
That sounds fun but as you say, being on TV regularly is not for me. I prefer performing to people rather than a camera as cameras never smile.
FRANK CHICKENS still continue and now has a large rotating membership, how did this idea to reinvent the group come about?
It sort of naturally happened. I think FRANK CHICKENS should be a community where we can share our love of eccentric British mindset. There is a lot of potentiality for having fun, this way.
I saw FRANK CHICKENS perform at Japan Matsuri 2012 in Trafalgar Square, so did performing to such a big mainstream crowd feel like vindication for you or does that sort of thing not matter to you?
Thank you for seeing us!
We have performed on the Other Stage (second biggest stage at Glastonbury Festival) in 80s. It had 20000 people and I still remember the view of the mass audience from the stage, looking like the sea. It was exciting but a bit alienating at the same time. I have performed my solo theatre show to two people at Battersea Arts Centre, who responded so well all the way through. It was equally exciting (but a bit sad, obviously). I don’t know which is better. Each time we do a gig and feel like we are sharing the excitement with the audience, how many they are, that is vindication for what we do, I suppose.
Which would be your 5 favourite FRANK CHICKENS songs?
All good. I cannot choose. It’s like choosing a child from your children. However I must say I always slightly prefer our original songs to cover, because I am big headed. If I could go off from FRANK CHICKENS, I do like the song called ‘Omoi Ame’ which I wrote with Steve for the record called ‘Love In Rainy Days’ from the French NATO label. It was my first attempt to write Enka (Japanese pop ballad) and Steve’s arrangement is fabulous.
What is next for FRANK CHICKENS?
First, we have to survive Christmas!
We have been organising annual one day festival called Ura Matsuri featuring ESEA (East and South East Asia) artists based in UK including FRANK CHICKENS, since 2016. We have just finished our 8th version at Hoxton Hall in October and our next one in 2025 will be in the Southbank Centre in July. We have started working on that (mostly the fund application!) now.
We are going to have the launch event for the online streaming of Ura Matsuri 2024 at Hackney Chinese Community Service in Shoreditch on March 9th.
Before that we will be playing at Posh Club produced by Duckie in Peckham and Stoke Newington in January. They are the daytime swanky clubs for pensioners. Great audience!
Meanwhile I hope to put more songs in Bandcamp so please watch out!
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Kazuko Hohki
Special thanks to Matt Ingham at Cherry Red Records
Minimal electronic duo XENO & OAKLANDER are back with their eight album ‘Via Negativa (in the doorway light)’.
Albums over the past 18 years like ‘Vigils’, ‘Sets & Lights’, ‘Par Avion’ and ‘Vi/deo’ have demonstrated and reinforced Liz Wendelbo and Sean McBride’s talents as the Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg of synth. From their Connecticut laboratory bubble, the new album sees a further refinement to their precise yet spirited productions.
With songs starting as embryonic piano sketches before McBride applied his modular and vintage synth knowhow, the opening title song makes a powerful statement in a cacophony of synths and percussion while the call and response duet between Liz Wendelbo and Sean McBride provides the fitting contrast of sweetness and starkness to play with the mindset. Less in your face but no less effective is the moodier ‘Mercury Mind’ with brighter hooks doing battle with far grittier distorted interventions.
Despite a seemingly impenetrable wall of synthetic sound, ‘The Unknown Side’ is gloriously bouncy, with Liz Wendelbo providing her alluring Je n’sais quoi to offset Sean McBride’s flatter snarl. ‘Lost & There’ takes XENO & OAKLANDER unexpectedly into a stuttering backdrop and the end result is something almost psychedelic as Wendelbo and McBride harmonise with their blend creating a Neil Tennant stylisation.
‘Actor’s Foil’ adopts a more rugged industrial synthpop template for some EBM sensibilities while with an immediate rhythmic bounce, ‘Magic of the Manifold’ is classic XENO & OAKLANDER reminiscent of ‘The Staircase’ from 2011’s ‘Sets & Lights’ with its squelchy bassline programming being a prominent feature.
A bilingual ode to bloodstones which are said to clear out negative energy, the speedy ‘O Vermillion’ is more minimal compared with other songs on the album and brings in Cossack chants for that Cold War edge that is suitably fitting with the spy drama end. The album concludes with the steadfast ‘Strange Fellows’ which lowers the tempo and plays around with shoegaze impressionism as Wendelbo and McBride vocally delightful spar.
This is another accessible and enjoyable XENO & OAKLANDER record that utilises technology and poetry with spikiness and sweetness, to present the dystopian and the utopian in a cerebral study of “what not to do, a negative image of a positive, the other side, the other”.
Michael Mertens and Ralf Dörper starting a new chapter of PROPAGANDA was perhaps not on anyone’s bingo card at the start of 2024.
Featuring the sultry vocals of Thunder Bae, PROPAGANDA have presented an eponymous long player to signify a fresh start with 7 new songs and a rework from ‘1234’, the 1990 album featuring Betsi Miller as lead singer.
Of course, PROPAGANDA were best known in their “ABBA in hell” line-up fronted by Claudia Brücken and Susanne Freytag which produced ‘A Secret Wish’, the acclaimed 1985 debut album which is regarded as something of a cult classic in industrial pop. On ‘Dr Mabuse’, PROPAGANDA said “never look back” and as a totally different animal to either ‘A Secret Wish’ or ‘1234’, that is exactly what this enjoyable self-titled album is about.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK had the pleasure of talking to Michael Mertens and Ralf Dörper as the sun was setting on a lovely autumn day in Düsseldorf about the record’s lengthy genesis and content…
When did writing together for a new PROPAGANDA begin in earnest, what had been the spur?
Ralf: Quite a while ago, Holly Johnson had a new album out and asked for a remix of ‘Dancing With No Fear’. We were sitting together in the studio working on that playing with analog synths and that started some activity because we knew we had some stuff in the cupboard that was nearly forgotten but worthwhile to start again. But it was a long process as we didn’t know what kind of result we were expecting. We had in the back of our minds that it would be fine to have a record out with artwork and a booklet, not just a digital release. That took a bit of time as we were seriously interrupted by Covid and other thing. But I have to admit the net time and the gross time were totally different that was spent on this album.
Michael: There were huge gaps in between, we had some songs from 2012 for a reunion of the original PROPAGANDA set-up with Claudia Brücken and Susanne Freytag, but that did not come together in the end. But we wrote some material for this but that was left behind and we didn’t think we would do much with it or what the future would bring. We all did different things you know. The actual trigger was Holly Johnson’s asking for a PROPAGANDA remix and we realised we get on well in the studio, we’ve always got on well. But Ralf’s idea was for a series of physical EPs…
Ralf: I was pretty optimistic and there was still a market so I thought to reintroduce ourselves after so long, let’s start with an EP with one new song, another version of that song and a rework of something old that was not so well-known, maybe even a song that was not released on ZTT. The idea was to do 2 or 3 EPs but when reality knocked, record companies told us this was not possible anymore or it would have to be a 200 limited edition because that is what the EP market is!
You’ve mentioned that you have always had a good relationship, and this continued even with ‘1234’ which Ralf was not involved in?
Ralf: No No! I was!
Michael: He was under contract to Virgin as well.
Ralf: This is something from the outside which is not so clear because when I left in 1990, there was a bit of bad will involved. So if you look at the CD booklet, you won’t find me pretty much. But we actually started work on the album in 1987 with a new singer Betsi Miller and a deal with Virgin. When the recording was going on in 1988, I was living in London and I got a bit bored with pop music. I was sucked into a LWR pirate radio station which introduced me to Detroit techno and acid, it was similar to what John Foxx said because the analog electronics that these people were working with reminded me of the early stuff when started PROPAGANDA before Fairlights and LinnDrums. So my mindset was changing. I was tempted to do something that was not very well known in England with Andreas Thein who was an original PROPAGANDA member. We did a record called ‘Dr Acid & Mr House’ which was a Top20 hit in Germany, we did it in 3 days… we earned more from that than we did with ‘Dr Mabuse’!!
‘Vicious Circle’ from ‘1234’ has been reworked for the album, why was that particular one most suitable for the new phase of Propaganda and how did the new arrangement develop as it is quite different?
Michael: Very different, ja… we always liked that track, it was one of the first tracks we wrote for ‘1234’ and thought it was the signature track for the album although ‘1234’ was a difficult album to make. It was a very difficult period for all members of PROPAGANDA with these incredible changes as you can imagine. You have a different singer so you have to cater for a different vocal style…
Ralf: …and there was the different cultural background, it really makes a difference if you work with a European and an American because there are some references that an American doesn’t get easily.
Michael: So that changed a lot. Then there was a difficult legal period with ZTT which shook us fundamentally and made us insecure in a sense. Maybe the producers had a bit more say than they should have on ‘1234’ but I still think it is a good record, don’t get me wrong. But Ralf and me, we always maintained a good relationship although in 1990-1991, our ways separated but not in a hostile way.
Ralf: The plan of doing 3 EPs with something old, because of the contract, we wouldn’t have been able to do rework of something from ‘A Secret Wish’ because in the paperwork when we left ZTT, that was something we had to sign that we couldn’t do something like Taylor Swift did and re-record everything! *laughs*
The initial plan was to use guest vocalists but you settled on having Thunder Bae sing on the album, was there a particular song she sang that made up your minds for you?
Michael: It was more than one song, I don’t totally remember which the first song was that we asked her to put her vocal to, it might have been ‘They Call Me Nacebo’ or ‘Purveyor Of Pleasure’ but I know she had done ‘Tipping Point’. For us, the first song, she did us a favour as we had written it for a female voice. She was happy to do that because she was interested in what we were doing. She’s from a different generation and said “look, this music you are doing, I really like it but I would never write a song like this, it’s totally different from what I do”, we thought that was good as we could evaluate the song, we weren’t evaluating her singing. That only came on the third song she did and we suddenly looked at each other…
Ralf: It was like the picture was becoming visible…
Michael: …then we asked her if she would do more.
‘Purveyor Of Pleasure’ opened this new phase of PROPAGANDA, how did you find the reaction to it, particularly on social media?
Michael: It was a mixed reaction but the main positive thing was “ok, these guys are doing something…”
Ralf: There was no pre-warning…
Michael: We knew there was going to be a mixed reaction but to be perfectly honest with you, we have always had mixed reactions to our work! When we came out with ‘A Secret Wish’ in Germany we had a lot of mixed reaction, some people HATED us! You know with ‘Dr Mabuse’, there was Claudia with her special kind of voice and the music was so different to what the mainstream, it was polarising but in a sense, we are not afraid to polarise. So ‘Purveyor Of Pleasure’ polarised but there was a lot of people who liked it; it is one of my favourite songs from the record, I really like it. I am very happy with the sequence of song we released and the way we did it, that’s really good.
Ralf: There’s one thing that has to be understood, when we started and for a couple of years, the idea was we call it “Dörper & Mertens”, to use the name PROPAGANDA only came up a few years ago and we had access to the band’s Spotify account. Universal had acquired from the catalogue from ZTT and funnily enough, they also had the Virgin catalogue. A few years ago, PROPAGANDA became available digitally for the first time. On Spotify, you have the Top 5 tracks listed of an artist and when we first had contact with Spotify for the first time, we saw as expected ‘Duel’ at No1, ‘P-Machinery’ at No2 but then a track from ‘1234’ at No3! If you look deeper because you can get regional profile, you saw that this was a major hit in South America.
So there might be people in Europe who when they hear PROPAGANDA, they think of Claudia Brücken but then when people in South America hear PROPAGANDA, they think of Betsi Miller. Then we thought, for us that’s a reason to say this is a new phase in PROPAGANDA with a new singer, it makes sense.
Michael: When Claudia Brücken left PROPAGANDA, the band was in transition. It was always transitory, the second album is completely different from the first and we felt we really had the right to do this because the core elements that go through all the music we have released is pretty much the writing. Of course, every singer who was in PROPAGANDA left her mark and have their own fans. I know of people who prefer the second PROPAGANDA album because of the singing…
Ralf: …and these people are not only in South America *laughs*
The album opens with ‘They Call Me Nocebo’, is that the first use of the word which means “a harmless substance or treatment that may cause harmful side effects or worsening of symptoms because the patient thinks or believes they may occur or expects them to occur” in a song?
Ralf: I first heard the word “nocebo” in a medical document and there are just some words that look interesting when written down and you want to use; but that was many years ago. But I liked its meaning of having a negative effect, that is the opposite of a placebo which is a word known by everybody. But many people who do know about placebos ask what a nocebo is! In a way, it’s logical *laughs*
Michael: I like Ralf’s lyrics very much and they trigger the right part of my brain.
So did you already have a musical idea or were you inspired by Ralf’s words?
Michael: For me it’s nicer if I have the words before…
Ralf: …I normally write words to music, I can write lyrics before but I prefer it the other way around.
Michael: I prefer to have the idea of the song before I actually start to compose but it sometimes happens that I have a piece of music that is not totally defined which is an open space. I give it to Ralf who may already have a lyrics that he is working on and he will work on it if he likes it. But in general, it is important to have a meaning when you do something. If you do the sort of music we do, it is important to have an intellectual construction.
‘Tipping Point’ focuses on ecological concerns, had there been a particular flashpoint which inspired this?
Ralf: It’s not only about the environment, I also see it as about living on the edge in a lot of different things like when Covid came up, you have political living on the edge and you could be living on the edge with the impact of something from the universe, that civilisation could be tipping.
Is this why you have a ‘Dystopian Waltz’? is very filmic and orchestrated, had it inspired by any particular visual imagery?
Michael: No, I don’t think ‘Tipping Point’ triggered that but ‘Dystopian Waltz’ goes back a long way.
Ralf: I visualise things and this was a field of ruins and somebody is dancing in the ruins like ‘The Day After’ or Berlin after the war. It’s a waltz and you could imagine a skeleton dancing so that was the start of this title. But at the beginning, we had included one line from ‘Wenn Ich Mir Was Wünschen Dürfte’ but we had to skip that idea because we were interfering with other people’s work and it’s always a bit of a problem if you just use a little part and not the whole, you need to agree with the other party on it.
The album closes with a cover of the 1930 Friedrich Hollaender song ‘Wenn Ich Mir Was Wünschen Dürfte’, how did this idea come about and develop as a recording because while in many ways it is logical, it was something of a surprise?
Michael: Many people were surprised because it is a German song. When Ralf suggested it, I was very fascinated by it, there’s been a lot of cover versions, I think the Greta Keller version is earlier than the one by Marlene Dietrich and she was teaching her the way to sing. Again, I just fell in love with the lyrics, there was interesting aspects when you sing that you might be missing the facts. This idea that melancholy is a place that is desirable instead of something to be afraid of. It’s a choice you can make, I found that very interesting within that song. We were very lucky because we had the idea to involve some guest musicians and Hauschka was one of them. When Ralf talked to me about Hauschka, I told him I’d know Volker for a very long time.
Ralf: That was before Covid so not only was that a long time ago but also before the Oscars.
Michael: It was a tricky situation because we were though “Oh God, he’s got an Oscar, we cannot call him!”, he would think I was only calling him to play on our record because he’d won an Oscar!
Ralf: With the sticker “featuring Academy Award Winner Hauschka”! *laughs*
Michael: I rang him up as I know him quite well as a colleague and I explained I was shy to call him as he had won the Oscar. I said “This may look like this is the reason I’ve called you and this is not the case. We are very slow workers and you’ve been on our list for many years and now is the time to do this so will you do this?” He was laughing and he did it.
Ralf: There is no English word but if you translate, the song means “If I had a wish” so that is a bit of reference to ‘A Secret Wish’ because at that time, people were always asking “OK, what is your secret wish?” but at the time, we didn’t have an intellectual answer. But “Wenn ich mir was wünschen dürfte, käm ich in Verlegenheit” is the perfect link to ‘A Secret Wish’.
What struck me on this cover of ‘Wenn Ich Mir Was Wünschen Dürfte’ was how fantastic Thunder Bae sounded in German, so as this new phase of PROPAGANDA continues, will there be future songs in German?
Michael: You’re not the first person to ask that, because her delivery on this song is really really good and she was very serious about this. We did a recording and it was quite good but then a couple of days later, she came back and said “No, I want to do certain things again”, she was really diving into this. We worked on this quite a bit, but this was a straightforward delivery, she didn’t do this is snippets, she sang it though and we kept it the way she did it. She did a great job on this.
Ralf: I have to admit when we started in 1982, the very first things were in German like ‘Disziplin’ which got Paul Morley interested. Then when we went into the studio for the first time to do some demonstration recordings, we had a song called ‘Doppelganger’ which was in German and in the beginning, ‘Dr Mabuse’ was also in German, some lines were left like “Kein Zurück für dich”. I can imagine us to do a mix of English and German again as that was very much a PROPAGANDA signature at that time.
You have bonus tracks on the double album editions?
Ralf: These are versions, reworked more with emphasis on the instrumental parts and the atmosphere but it’s not a straight dub but hinting at soundtrack music.
Now you’ve had some distance from the album and it’s out in the public domain, how do you view it now as a body of work?
Michael: Well, now it doesn’t belong to us anymore, it belongs to the world. It’s nice and I’m happy about the reception and the development it took. It hasn’t been out for a long time but it has received some nice recognition which was an artist, when you realise you have an audience and they are responding to you work, then that is kid of fulfilling.
Ralf: Times have changed and there are no budgets anymore, especially for something like video. It’s really different to what you had in the 80s or 90s. We should really mention that we are really lucky that a lot of the visual ideas came from Thunder Bae because she has a background in video making. So that means for the songs, she comes up with storylines and worksheets and she even knows how to do it so what you’ve seen so far is her work. The first video came out of the blue because we didn’t want to appear in it. So we had a lyric video but we wanted to have this monument, this horse statue that was in ‘Dr Mabuse’, we wanted to do it like a secret, but give people a hint…
Like an Easter egg?
Ralf: Ja! That was the main idea for the first video…
Michael: Thunder Bae came along, put together and edited the first video, we were blown away. She really deserves the credit as a video artist and then she had the idea for the next video ‘They Call Me Nacebo’; we got people together, I asked a cinematographer I knew to join in for no money, that kind of thing, the album was made like that *laughs*
Ralf: It was a recruitment of a lot of people in Düsseldorf which is why we put on the album “Conceived and accomplished in Düsseldorf”.
Finally, do you have any favourite tracks?
Michael: ‘Distant’ is very much a favourite now, it culminates in a nice way and has a strong atmosphere, also the instrumental version, I think you’ll like it. But also I love ‘Purveyor Of Pleasure’.
Ralf: It’s ‘Distant’ for now, as in autumn although it’s a bit warm at the moment. It’s a perfect song for grey days and it’s cold and you feel “distant”.
I remember when I first heard this album, I thought of autumn…
Ralf: We thought that was well, when we were discussing with the record company about the release date, I said “it’s not a summer album” as records companies sometimes like to release records in the summer when there are not many other records coming out so they chart easily. PROPAGANDA was always more autumn or winter.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its grateful thanks to Michael Mertens and Ralf Dörper
‘Propaganda’ is released by Bureau B in CD, limited double CD, vinyl LP, limited double vinyl LP and digital editions
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