New York-based duo R. MISSING finally issued their first full-length album ‘Knife Shook The Hand’ at the end of 2024 having debuted in 2017 with the mini-album ‘Unsummering’.
Comprising of the enigmatic Sharon Shy and the even more elusive Toppy Frost, the pair originally bonded over their shared dislikes. With a shadowy brand of understated electronic pop noir characterised by Sharon Shy’s sad forlorn vocals and Toppy Frost’s ethereal synthesized backdrops, R. MISSING have focussed on standalone songs with ‘Crimeless’, ‘New Present City’, ‘All Alone With Seas’ and ‘Verónica Pass’ among the fine examples of their portfolio.
However, while releasing singles to streaming platforms has been very much the norm these last few years, the low profile presence of R. MISSING has meant they have passed many listeners by despite the quality of their work. However, ‘Knife Shook The Hand’ has now provided the long playing focal point that their music deserves; among the collection’s highlights were Party Fade Into Air’, Make It Starry Most’, ‘The Down That Creeps’ and ‘Sleep Will Darken It’.
Never sitting still for long, R. MISSING’s start to 2025 has been heralded by a wonderful new song ‘Fakesnow’ in collaboration with Johan Agebjörn; and it was via an introduction by the Swedish producer that ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK was able have a virtual chat across the Atlantic with Sharon Shy…
R. MISSING have finally released a full length long player ‘Knife Shook The Hand’, this might sound a silly question but does it now feel “proper”, like things have got “real” as a band? How has the audience response been?
The aim was just to create a fast way to locate all of our most recent releases. We feel no more or less “real” than before. The audience response has been nice.
‘Knife Shook The Hand’ is a striking title but I can’t help but notice that its cover artwork looking at you from behind staring at greenery is like the photos which THE KNIFE used around the time of ‘Shaking The Habitual’, was this a homage to the sibling duo?
No – but that sounds very interesting. I should have a look…
‘All Alone With Seas’ was a fine track but ultimately didn’t end up on the album, so how did you go about selecting which songs would form ‘Knife Shook Your Hand’?
‘Knife Shook Your Hand’ is a collection of songs released in 2024. ‘All Alone With Seas’ came out the year prior.
How would you describe your creative dynamic with Toppy Frost in R. MISSING, is it working in a room together or much more remote? Do you have specific roles?
We typically work remotely, although there are exceptions. I usually start with concepts and Henry then makes things come to fruition.
CHROMATICS are often cited in reviews of R. MISSING, but which artists have been key in influencing the sonic palette of R. MISSING?
It changes day after day, week after week. One day it might be French yé-yé, the next, Eurodance or Virna Lindt, then THE FUTURE SOUND OF LONDON or something else entirely. I’m generally more inspired by books than by other music, too.
Since the debut mini-album ‘Unsummering’ in 2017, R.MISSING had been following a “singles only” strategy, what was the thinking behind this? Was this to maximise the streaming algorithms or was it more down to practicality?
We change very quickly and often feel almost disconnected to a song soon after its completion. Releasing quickly sends out the message when it’s still very new and pertinent. I wait every evening for a world that’s fast, quiet and calm.
Would you say that ‘Crimeless’ released in 2021 helped R.MISSING achieve a wider profile breakthrough? What was it about the song do you think that made it so appealing?
That I don’t know. I can’t say for certain that it appeals to anyone. All I can say is that it’s a moment in time.
With ‘New Present City’, you went as far as commissioning a video to accompany it, did you work with the video director on the storyline or did you allow them total artistic freedom to interpret the music as they saw fit?
The director had a vision for the concept of the video that he made come to life all by himself. We cannot take any credit for that.
For ‘Sleep Will Darken It’ with its brilliant synth solo, you self-produced a very effective DIY video for it; with R. MISSING having projected an enigmatic image, how was it to perform in front of the camera?
Fast and unstudied. Just another starless night in the underpass parking somewhere.
So what is ‘The Down That Creeps’?
It’s the disquiet you might feel at Club Altair when the music stopping times up with the windows jamming.
With songs like ‘Jane Four’, ‘Get Careful Darker’, ‘Maryhead’, ‘Cry Quicker’ and ‘Imagination To Be Sad’, R. MISSING don’t mess about and all clock in under three minutes? Was it intentional to keep these songs short?
Not intentional. Concision is just my automatic feeling.
Do you have any favourite songs on the album and if so, why those particular ones?
No. The truth is I never really think about anything once it’s alive.
Since the album ‘Knife Shook The Hand’ came out, there has been a new single ‘Fakesnow’ with Johan Agebjörn, how did this come about and what was the writing process between you like?
Johan created an elegant dark Italo disco instrumental that luckily worked extremely well with a concept and lyrics we had floating in our brains for a while.
There was the 2023 collaboration ‘ Wear The Night Out’ with CAUSEWAY which was very fitting and they also made a ‘My Time As A Ghostly Someone Else’ remix. Are there anymore collaborations planned for the future with other producers and artists?
Quite possibly. Although I’m not the best at guessing the future, I’ve always wanted to be a sci-fi side character.
R. MISSING like to do the occasional cover version and these have ranged from new wave numbers like ‘I Could Be Happy’ and ‘Spellbound’ to soul classics such as ‘Superstition’, so how do you choose a song that will suit the R. MISSING aesthetic? Are there any more particular songs you would like to do?
A record label asked us to do several covers that suited several themes they had in mind. I’m not sure we’ll be doing any other covers.
What is next for R. MISSING? You don’t play live very often, is that something that might change in the future?
More releases. And yes, more live shows.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Sharon Shy
‘The Covers’ is the new long playing collection by KID MOXIE.
The musical vehicle of Greek-born Elena Charbila, although KID MOXIE has been busy these past few years with her 2022 long player ‘Better Than Electric’ and 2023’s collaborative EP ‘Lust’ with German Queen Of Synthwave NINA released on Italians Do It Better, the new collection was precipitated by her soundtrack work on the 2020 film ‘Not To Be Unpleasant, But We Need To Have A Serious Talk’.
While the majority of the material on the soundtrack was instrumental, it included a stark feminine reinterpretation of ALPHAVILLE’s ‘Big In Japan’; the traction gained led to further soundtrack commissions, most notably the drama series ‘Maestro In Blue’, the first Greek television series to be made available on Netflix. This led to a number of cover versions being commissioned in her continental cinematic pop style. Ranging from worldwide pop classics to Greek language evergreens, a number were included in the series and released as single while others remained unused on the hard drive… until now.
Now back in Athens after many years of living in Los Angeles, Elena Charbila spoke to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK about the stories behind recording the various songs included on ‘The Covers’ album…
Why did you decide to put together a covers compilation?
I feel like there was too many floating around and I think it was motivated by my OCD which wants things in boxes and chapters… covers are a big chapter of my musical life and something that more people got to know me from, as tends to happen with covers in general. So I thought I would put them in one chapter and put them away for a while because I’m ready to say “this was the covers chapter, let’s move on to more original stuff”. But I’m also really proud of this chapter so I wanted to highlight it.
What has been particularly delightful about this compilation is you’ve made a statement of your Greek heritage by including ‘Aniko Se Mena’, ‘Ela Mazi Mou’, ‘Poios To Kserei’, ‘Ti Einai Ayto Pou To Lene Agapi’, ‘Τa Ladadika’ and ‘Panselinos’?
It wasn’t intentional, but I was a little bit sceptical and apprehensive about going there. But it feels in life that going back full circle has a liberating feeling because there’s sometimes to fear about going back to your roots. I was always afraid of leaving America and moving back to Greece, it was almost “a step backwards” but I don’t see it that way anymore.
It’s the same with these covers, I don’t see singing in my native language as a step backwards, I see it as “what a cool bridge”, coming back full circle and singing in a language that was “too close to home” literally… liberating is one way of describing it, but there was a sensation of getting closer to where you may be running from. So you want to differentiate yourself from your heritage, your roots, your home, your parents and then once you’ve done that, it’s almost like the odyssey, you come full circle and can embrace it because I’ve found pieces of myself along the way. So I can embrace where I came from because that was the jolt to take the journey in the first place.
How would something like ‘Ti Einai Ayto Pou To Lene Agapi’ which was in a 1957 Sophia Loren film have been chosen?
Oddly enough, this was a suggestion from the label Universal Greece, they said “you haven’t really done anything Greek, this is an iconic Greek song, the one that has been sung the most because of Sophia Loren, how do you feel about doing this one?”
Usually I refrain from doing stuff that is already close to my vibe, this was already ethereal, emotional, sung by a woman and Greek…. one of the things when I do covers is I don’t want to be compared, so I always try to pick something so different in order to do something different. But it was a revelation to do something that I was a little apprehensive about and scared of. And now it’s one of my favourite covers I’ve ever done at this point 🙂
How did you decide on the eerie synthwave arrangement for ‘Ti Einai Ayto Pou To Lene Agapi’?
It was born into it with me, it’s the ballpark I like, I really like those sonic soundscapes and vibes. Something like this that’s been so traditional and filmic and Greek, how would it live in that soundspace? That was what really excited me.
In a way, your approach to this reminds me of PROPAGANDA doing that cover of ‘Wenn Ich Mir Was Wünschen Dürfte’ this year; I think as much as people can complain about Spotify etc, it has sort of created an international environment now where language is no longer a barrier to appreciating music anymore…
I agree and I actually thought it’s hot for people who don’t understand a language to still like it and get the feeling. For me, it’s never been about lyrics anyway, I write lyrics because I write music, lyrics always came secondary so it doesn’t matter what language they are in. Primarily it is about the melody and the music. I’m not a Bob Dylan fan, but people who love him, love him for what he says mostly, it’s just not my cup of tea and I don’t know if that’s sacrilegious but that’s now I feel because I don’t feel the vibes *laughs*
I know what you mean, I only like Bob Dylan songs when they are covered by other people and to be quite honest, I prefer Leonard Cohen! *laughs*
100%!
Photo by Paige Von Bank
You duetted on ‘Aniko Se Mena’ with Giorgos Mazonakis, how did this come about because this is unusual in that you are singing this with the original artist?
Yes, there’s two of these on the album, the other is with Haris Alexiou, both of them came as requests. All these Greek artists, I was surprised and grateful that they invited me to touch iconic songs of theirs and I can include them now on my album.
The one with Giorgos Mazonakis was for a Cannes award winning short film ‘On Xerxes Throne’. But he was ready to take a departure and make something really different plus he was also starring in the film, so that’s how it came about. This is another iconic Greek song that everybody in Greece knows, very traditional sounding with Bouzouki and all of that, but because I don’t listen to Greek music, I didn’t even know it which was a surprise to Mazonakis, he was like “C’mon dude, you don’t know my song?”! *laughs*
‘Panselinos’ is a duet with Haris Alexiou who released an album of reworks, the backing sounds a bit like that great late Greek Vangelis?
This song means “Full Moon”; I call Haris Alexiou “the DEPECHE MODE of Greece” because a couple of months after my collaboration with DEPECHE MODE on ‘Wagging Tongue’, people were asking me about her and she has a legacy of decades with a huge audience abroad as well. Sounding like Vangelis was intentional but it’s always unintentional at the same time, him and Angelo Badalamenti are my two favourite composers of all time. So I feel once you love and have delved into somebody’s work so much, it’s inevitable that you are going to bring it with you! So that’s an amazing compliment!
Photo by Paige Von Bank
‘Poios To Kserei’ was made famous by Nana Mouskouri who is a worldwide star and my mother played at lot at home, but you’ve given it a very different synthwave treatment?
I did this one because my Mum loves it and what’s more Greek than doing something your Mum chooses! *laughs*
It’s a gorgeous song, this and ‘Ela Mazi Mou’ which means “Come With Me”, they are both my Mum’s choices, I said to her “I making some Greek songs, please tell me some of your favourites”; she wrote down a list, I picked two and I made them for her 🙂
Another song you have given a synthwave treatment to is ‘Τa Ladadika’ which in its Dimitris Mitropanos version has a traditional dramatic delivery complete with Bouzouki?
Talking about legends, people would have killed for Mitropanos who has now passed on, but he is someone who is so heavy in Greek culture and people are very passionate about him. This is a song about prostitutes in a particular area of Northern Greece and it was really interesting for a woman to be talking about that in those lyrics rather than a man as per the original. It’s a gorgeous melody and an iconic track.
Do you think your cover of ALPHAVILLE’s ‘Big In Japan’ presented you to a much wider audience?
YES I DO! *laughs*
How do you look back on the reaction to it?
Again, this was created for a film back in 2019 and that showed me what covers can do… it showed me that there is such a bridge between an indie artist and an audience once you throw in something really recognisable and twist it on its face. So I was thinking “oh cool, maybe I could do a little more of that” and more and more and more. It felt like the beginning and it’s still one of the ones I still listen to, because there is some stuff I listen to from the past, even in ‘The Covers’ where I think “this is good, I see why I wanted to do this” but ‘Big In Japan’, I’m a fan of how that sounds… I’m not saying that about everything but that one is one of my favourites.
Did Marian Gold of ALPHAVILLE ever feedback his opinion?
I did! We have the same publisher Schubert so I heard through them that he heard it and loved it, that was an amazing pat on the back on my first big cover 🙂
Doing the ‘Creep’ cover was a bold step, but while recording it, did you notice how close it really was musically to ‘The Air That I Breathe’ which was written by Albert Hammond and made famous by THE HOLLIES?
No! I never thought about that!
The song was done as a love theme for a Netflix show called ‘Maestro In Blue’, the third and final season has just dropped and three songs from ‘The Covers’ appear. That was actually a request on the strength of ‘Big In Japan’ from the director who loved ‘Creep’, he wanted the something close to that. But when I listen back to both of them, they really don’t sound similar. ‘Big In Japan’ definitely has a darker sparse edge whereas ‘Creep’ is way more ethereal. It also became one of my favourite covers and got a lot of love. And because people heard it, it brought me a lot of other beautiful things and people asked if I would like to work with them, it was very unexpected.
Because the show and song were popular, whether it’s liked or not, I was craving some hate mail! I was like “Where is my hate mail you guys?”; I felt people were going to think I was disrespecting it! It’s like with ‘Ti Einai Ayto Pou To Lene Agapi’, when it was released a couple of week ago, I was waiting for the hate mail, it didn’t come… but then about a week ago, somebody posted a horrific comment on Instagram about it saying that he’s been puking since he heard it and it’s a horrible thing and vile and I should die and how dare I, so I pinned it as a top comment, I was like “yeah, here we go!”… so ‘Creep’ didn’t get enough hate like I thought it was going to! *laughs*
What inspired you to put together a ‘Twin Peaks’ meets darkwave version of ‘Can’t Help Falling In Love’?
Again, this was a request from the director for ‘Maestro In Blue’ for a very very important love scene, a full circle end of episode scene. As with ‘Creep’, I’m anticipating reaction, let’s see how that does… *laughs*
Photo by Paige Von Bank
‘Waiting For Tonight’ saw you do a delicious rework of the song with NINA, are there any plans to work together again?
Not in the immediate future, I think we’re both focussed on our own individual stuff but I am so proud of what we did together and the ‘Lust’ EP is one of my favourites, also getting to work with Italians Do It Better was something we had both been wanting to do for a long time. This song is like the womb it came out of so this EP was like the best home it could have had, all the visuals and everything about my collab with NINA was a beautiful chapter.
’Wild Is The Wind’ has been interpreted by many different artists, who did your favourite version and why did you do it? What did you feel you could bring it?
This was going to be in ‘Maestro In Blue’ and that was the only reason I touched it, I was never going to go there. I love it but I never felt the need… to be honest, that was one of the scariest things to tackle because I thought “this is going to swallow me alive”, that was way scarier than ‘Creep’ which is way more well known.
So I did it, it didn’t end up making the show because of rights, logistics and all that! But if I was going to pick between Nina Simone and David Bowie, Bowie’s is definitely the one I’ve listened to the most and resonated with, it has more of an explosion of emotion instrumentally which I really a big fan of. But neither Nina Simone’s or Bowie’s was an influence on this and I’m glad because I try to stay away from trying to imitate or take suggestions from an original or a well-known version because that is a recipe for not-a-good cover…
Photo by Paige Von Bank
Were there any reasons that you decided to leave off some of your other covers like AC/DC ‘Thunderstruck’, BEE GEES ‘Holiday’ or Julee Cruise ‘Mysteries Of Love’?
You know what Chi! I forgot about ‘Thunderstruck’! That’s an honest answer! *laughs*
Also, ‘Thunderstruck’ was quite recently released and on the ‘Better Than Electric’ album but as far as ‘Mysteries Of Love’ goes, I don’t see it as a cover because that was a rework with Angelo Badalamenti, so it was never living in me as a cover, we just did a new version of it. But you know what, you’re making me think, I don’t know if I made the right choice to leave them out, especially as ‘Mysteries Of Love’ was one the most beautiful experiences in my musical life ever.
Are there any songs you would still like to cover or any fantasy duets you would like to do?
With covers, I feel so inundated right now, I feel it’s been a lot and I’m sure come back to it, I’m sure I will but not right now.
Fantasy duets? If we’re going dream big, then Kate Bush would be the first person who comes to mind, that would be iconic, yeah!
What are you up to next?
I’m composing music for an animation show, so that’s going to be the case for a while as it’s multiple seasons. I’ve started on an album of original songs that may include a few I did for a Fox TV series. It will be an EP perhaps, I don’t know how many songs are going to end up coming out. That’s what I’ve been up to.
I’m going to be on two episodes of ‘The Voice of Greece’ as a guest judge and performer. The Teams are now fixed, Giorgos Mazonakis is one of the judges and has invited me as his guest to sing with him on one number while I’ll also be performing alone.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its sincerest thanks to KID MOXIE
‘The Covers’ is released by Minos EMI and available online now via Apple and Spotify
CAMOUFLAGE’s ‘Rewind To The Future & Goodbye’ tour was an opportunity for the German electronic pop veterans to look back on four decades. And while CAMOUFLAGE’s past was being celebrated, new songs such as the autobiographical tour title song and ‘Everything’ were also included.
Influenced by the likes of KRAFTWERK, THE HUMAN LEAGUE, DEPECHE MODE and DAF, Oliver Kreyssig, Heiko Maile and Marcus Meyn, formed CAMOUFLAGE in Bietigheim-Bissingen and eventually settled on the name after a track on the 1981 YELLOW MAGIC ORCHESTRA album ‘BGM’. Their 1987 debut single ‘The Great Commandment‘ was certifiled Gold in Germany while it was an American hit in 1989, peaking in the Billboard Hot100 at No59 while also being a Billboard Dance Club Play No1. Another German Gold single and Top10 ‘Love Is A Shield’ followed.
With eight albums to their name, CAMOUFLAGE have a formidable back catalogue, as exemplified by their recently released multi-disc retrospective, also called ‘Rewind To The Future & Goodbye’; the band invited their fans via social media to vote for their favorite tracks and the resultant 40 track collection includes not just singles but B-sides, fan favorites and rare recordings.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK had the pleasure of meeting CAMOUFLAGE in Hamburg and Oberhausen during the ‘Rewind To The Future & Goodbye’ tour, so took the opportunity afterwards to catch up with Heiko Maile for a comprehensive new career spanning interview…
Photo by Klaus Mellenthin
CAMOUFLAGE have been around for 40+ years, that is a long time to be in a band but when you first formed in Bietigheim-Bissingen, was lasting so many decades ever in your thoughts? Was it something you even joked about?
Certainly not! Back then, our dream was simply to record in a professional studio and produce a 12 inch vinyl for ourselves, our friends, and our earliest fans. The original version of ‘The Great Commandment’ was created during such a session – that it would lead to such a long story for our band was, of course, unimaginable. Sure, we made jokes about it, or dreamed of winning the lottery like everyone else, but in a way, that’s what happened with CAMOUFLAGE. You need talent, a lot of hard work, and most of all, plenty of luck to be in the right place at the right time. One such moment for us was our debut single.
CAMOUFLAGE arrived just as analog synthesis was being superseded by digital synthesis and sampling, what keyboards were first being used and how was the band adapting to this technology race where new equipment was coming out all the time?
Looking back, this transitional period was the perfect environment for us. On one hand, many instruments and techniques became affordable for beginners like us, and on the other, there were constant innovations, which meant older analog devices became available at reasonable prices on the second-hand market. Of course, even these “affordable” devices were still expensive for us, but just a few years earlier, much of this technology was only accessible to established artists with big budgets.
We invested all our savings to buy our first gear and spent every school holiday working factory jobs to afford new equipment. That’s how our first setup came together: a Roland Juno-60, a JX-3P, a TB-303 Bassline, a Korg MS-20, and a Roland TR-808 drum machine.
What are your memories of performing on TV for the first time with ‘The Great Commandment’ in Summer 1987, was there feeling that something big was about to happen for you all?
Well, we were certainly curious about what would happen after our first TV appearance. From an outsider’s perspective, it might have seemed like an overnight success, but for us, it marked the end of a long period of waiting, during which we sometimes doubted the single would ever be released. The journey to that point had many steps.
It all began with the first studio recording with Axel Henninger, which largely resembled the “Extended Radio Mix” that was later released. The response to this recording from our label, Westside Music, was so positive that they had high hopes for its release. This led them to partner with promoters and distributors, including Karin Wirthmann, who later became our manager. She introduced us to Metronome Records, which offered exciting prospects but also slowed things down with new plans and strategies.
One idea was to wait for the right TV show to showcase our single to a large audience – this finally happened about a year after the initial recording. The waiting tested our nerves, but it was worth it. Although the show aired on a Sunday morning, the response was phenomenal. We also did a lot of radio promotion, which kept the momentum going. The reactions were fantastic and kept us incredibly busy for the next two to three years. Back then, TV had a much bigger impact than it does today.
Photo by Heike Hilgendorff
How do you look back on the making of your debut album ‘Voices & Images’? Was it just forward momentum all the way through?
It was more of an unfiltered, perhaps even naïve time. Of course, the success of the single put some pressure on us, but we had plenty of songs and ideas from the years before, so we simply selected our favorites. Scheduling studio time was trickier, though, since Oliver was still in training and Marcus was finishing his final year of high school. I had already completed my vocational training and decided – even before ‘The Great Commandment’ became a hit – to devote a year entirely to music. This allowed me to work in the studio with Axel Henninger on the tracks for the album, while the others joined us on weekends. There were a few challenging moments, but I remember this phase as an exciting and intense time of growth. We absorbed every new studio experience like sponges.
This contrasts with our second album, ‘Methods of Silence’, where we had to navigate the expectations that came with following a successful debut. Writing a strong, independent album under those circumstances was our real baptism by fire. With ‘Voices & Images’, we had a stockpile of songs…
‘Voices & Images’ is perfect in its original 10 song LP running order, do you have any favourite songs from it?
No, there isn’t one definitive favorite. Naturally, we sometimes hope that fans and listeners would shine more light on tracks beyond ‘The Great Commandment’, but after our recent tour, we were delighted to see that alongside the eternal fan favorite ‘That Smiling Face’, songs like ‘Stranger’s Thoughts’ and ‘Neighbours’ are still true crowd-pleasers!
As a film score composer today, I particularly enjoy revisiting ‘Voices & Images’. Tracks like the 3/4 time signature and flugelhorn solo on ‘I Once Had a Dream’ or the mysterious sounds of ‘Pompeii’ stand out to me as personal highlights.
Marcus once described CAMOUFLAGE songs as “melancholic and sometimes sad – but not negative”, was this one of the advantages you had over DEPRESSED MODE that set you apart?
Honestly, there was never a master plan behind it. It’s more of a snapshot of our life situations at the time. Early DEPECHE MODE also had a much more “positive” sound, and they released far more albums than we did. For example, ‘Sensor’ had significantly darker moments compared to ‘Relocated’.
What our music might have sounded like during phases where we didn’t release anything is something we’ll never know. However, I do think there’s a certain emotional foundation in our work that leans more toward hope and optimism rather than dystopia or hopelessness.
After ‘The Great Commandment’, was the pressure was on with the second album ‘Methods Of Silence’ and to achieve another hit? You did it with ‘Love Is A Shield’, was it yours or the record company’s decision to bring Peter Godwin in to help with the lyrics?
The idea to involve Peter Godwin came from our producer at the time, Dan Lacksman, but also because we wanted more confidence in our lyrics. Since our music had such an international reach, it became even more important to avoid significant errors as non-native speakers. So, the collaboration was more of a proofreading process – the lyrics were all written by us. It’s a bit unfortunate in hindsight that it sometimes seems like Peter played a larger role in the process than he actually did.
On ‘Methods Of Silence’ you covered ‘On Islands’ by NEW MUSIK, is Tony Mansfield one of the most underrated songwriters and producers ever because his influence can be clearly heard in the more synthpop work of THE WEEKND?
We’ve always been fans of NEW MUSIK and could never understand why they didn’t achieve greater success. In addition to the ‘Anywhere’ album, which had a huge impact on us, their album ‘From A To B’ was also very influential. Not only because of ‘On Islands’, but even the name of our demo tape, ‘From Ay To Bee’ (1985), was directly inspired by it. Beyond his impressive work as a producer for A-HA, THE B-52S, and CAPTAIN SENSIBLE, I was especially excited by the collaboration Tony Mansfield had with one of my other musical idols – Yukihiro Takahashi – on his album ‘Neuromantic’ in 1981.
Through our cover version, ‘On Islands’ became a part of us in a way, and many of our fans see it that way too. Personally, looking back, I find our version a bit unfortunate because we stuck so closely to the arrangement and sound of the original. At the time, we saw this as a mark of respect and homage. But we’ve since learned that a cover should ideally add a fresh perspective to the original. Still, as fans, we achieved our goal: to bring this great song to a wider audience!
Apart from ‘Kling Klang’ and ‘Kraft’, CAMOUFLAGE lyrics are almost exclusively in English, so have you ever dreamt in English?
During the height of our success, we spent a lot of time in the US and gave countless interviews in English. So yes, it did happen occasionally.
Our decision to write lyrics in English was influenced by feedback from a publisher we approached, along with many other labels, during our early days. Our demo tapes included songs with both English and German lyrics. Like most others, this publisher turned us down but offered some valuable advice: to focus on one language moving forward.
Photo by Wolfgang Wilde
In 1990, Oliver left but did this prompt CAMOUFLAGE to explore more traditional directions with violin, sax and live drums as well as more guitar?
Oliver’s departure at the end of our first live tour was a significant turning point for the band. Although we had been aware of his decision for a few months, it was still a major change, especially after spending almost every moment together over the previous three years. Tensions had built up, and in hindsight, it might have been better if we had taken a break from each other to clear our heads and regain perspective.
The tour itself was a fantastic experience, particularly because we performed with Ingo Ito (guitar), Thomas Dörr (drums), and Robin Loxley (keyboards). We increasingly enjoyed the blend of electronic and live instruments. Later, violinist and keyboardist Julian Boyd (aka Julian DeMarre) joined us, and we collaborated with him for several years.
In hindsight, do you think this was the right way to go on ‘Meanwhile’? What lessons did you take away from working with Colin Thurston as producer?
In a way, the move towards acoustic instruments was a logical extension of the evolution between our first two albums. We also became bolder about embracing “other” influences, like THE BEATLES, TALK TALK, or Daniel Lanois. With the success of our earlier albums, we had the budget to explore freely. We even had a great conversation in London with Midge Ure but ultimately decided to work with Colin Thurston. His impressive production credits drew us in, but it was his eccentric personality that convinced us he’d bring unorthodox and fresh ideas to the table.
The production started promisingly, and Colin seemed genuinely enthusiastic about our work. But over time, it became clear that he wasn’t contributing as much as we had hoped. Perhaps this was due to the illness he later battled, which we only learned about many years after his death. In the end, all these developments resulted in an album that wasn’t well-received by many of our fans. Even before the final mix, we had a sense of this and resolved to make our next album much more electronic. Looking back, we laugh at many of our decisions, but we also wonder what opportunities might have opened up if ‘Meanwhile’ had been as successful as its predecessors.
You went back to electronics and working with Dan Lacksman again on ‘Bodega Bohemia’, the album features the ‘Suspicious Love’ but closes with the fantastic epic ‘In Your Ivory Tower’, what inspired it and how did you decide to make it so long?
As we wanted the album to embrace a more electronic style, we adopted the motto “Think Electronic”. This mindset led to the creation of an instrumental track, which I initially envisioned as a sort of electronic symphony and the perfect way to close the album. When our guitarist, Ingo Ito, heard it, he suggested he could write lyrics and vocals for it. A few days later, he played us his idea, and we were immediately captivated. The lyrics were inspired by a friend who had passed away from AIDS just a few weeks earlier. I feel Marcus captured the mood beautifully during the studio recording.
Although I was initially hesitant to keep the arrangement at its full length, we ultimately felt that every section of the track was too strong to cut. One of my personal highlights is the violin melody at around 3:57 min, contributed by Julian Boyd. This track became a special collaboration and a fitting conclusion to the album.
In 1995, you released a superb cover of Moon Martin’s ‘Bad News’, how did you figure out it would work as a CAMOUFLAGE track in the context of ‘Spice Crackers’?
Thank you so much for the praise—it really means a lot. Sadly, that album never received the recognition I believe it deserved. Over the years, people have often told us that the production style was ahead of its time. While we’re not sure, it was certainly the album we wanted to make in 1995: a mix of electronic influences driven by the club music trends of the era, yet still melodic, harmonious, and full of sci-fi elements and experimentation.
We were also heavily influenced by the cultural moment—frequent cinema trips to see Quentin Tarantino’s ‘Pulp Fiction’ and a general creative buzz. At some point, Moon Martin’s ‘Bad News’ came back into our minds. It was a track we had danced to countless times in our local youth disco in the early ’80s, and it had always been on our wishlist of potential covers. It felt like the perfect fit for the eclectic style of the album, and we loved bringing it into that world.
Photo by Mathias Bothor
The classic trio reunited in 1998 and has now stayed together longer than first time round and produced more albums, how did the approach change to enable this longevity?
The turning point in our band’s history came after the commercial failure of ‘Spice Crackers’. It became clear that we couldn’t continue to dedicate 100% of our time to the band. Around the same time, we had to shut down our studio in Hamburg, and Marcus and I each became fathers within a short span. This led us to reorient our careers and take a two-year hiatus from the band. Both of us moved with our families to Stuttgart.
Eventually, the desire to make music together returned, and we saw this new reality as an opportunity to reassess many of the dynamics that had crept in during the stressful years before. Marcus suggested inviting Oli to join us for a fresh start. At the time, I had set up a new studio in Stuttgart, primarily for production work and commercial music, and we already had a demo – ‘Thief’ – to work on together. In 1998, the three of us were back in the studio, and it felt as though no time had passed.
Since then, we’ve accomplished many projects together, but the fundamental set-up has remained the same: each member has their own career and doesn’t rely on the band’s income. This removes much of the pressure, even though it limits the time we can dedicate to the band. While this approach can lead to delays in album production, it gives us the freedom to create only what we truly want, with virtually no compromises. We all deeply value this arrangement.
The full album return with ‘Sensor’ took a while to complete and it finally came out in 2003, did the delays in making the record taint your memories of it?
After ‘Thief’, we signed with Virgin Germany, who expressed interest in an album but never fully committed. Even our willingness to release ‘The Great Commandment 2.0’ as a single didn’t sway them. While we enjoyed working with the British production team TOY (Kerry Hopwood, Dave Clayton and engineer Q) and found the collaboration promising, we were more eager to focus on a new album rather than revisiting our classic track. Virgin ultimately decided against producing the album, which initially frustrated us but also motivated us to move forward independently.
We announced ‘Sensor’ as our next album, even though its production timeline and release were still unclear. After continuing to work on demos, we eventually found a new partner in Polydor, who fully supported the project. Their commitment helped us bring the album to life with great care and determination.
‘Me & You’ was a great opening salvo for your “comeback” album, how did that come together as a recording?
‘Me & You’ was written during the Virgin era and was frequently performed live at our concerts back then. As a result, there were multiple versions of the song before we finalised the studio version. Each iteration left a mark, with various details and sound snippets finding their way into the final arrangement.
When we signed with Polydor, we planned the production with three different producers for specific tracks: TOY (who had worked on ‘The Great Commandment 2.0’), Gerret Frerichs (aka Humate), and Rob Kirwan (known for engineering U2 tracks and others). While the sessions were promising, the songs ended up pulling in slightly different directions. Budget constraints also forced us to end our collaboration with Rob Kirwan.
TOY developed a strong concept for ‘Me & You’ and their session in England shaped the track significantly. However, they eventually stepped back, citing a mismatch in expectations for the production process. Fortunately, they generously shared their audio files with us, including the incredible driving synth bassline. The final production was completed with Gerret Frerichs in Hamburg, blending elements from various sessions.
Despite the challenges, the resulting album has a cohesive sound. Looking back, I’m especially proud that we overcame the logistical and creative hurdles to deliver something that felt unified and true to our vision.
There has since been two more albums ‘Relocated’ and ‘Greyscale’, how do you look back on those? Which songs still stand out for you?
For me, ‘Relocated’ will always hold a special place as it captures a period in the band’s history when, for the first time in many years, we were all living in the same city. This allowed us to spend a significant amount of time together in the studio, something we hadn’t done with such intensity since ‘Methods of Silence’. The collaboration was incredibly creative, leading to a wonderful blend of collective songwriting. A great example is ‘Dreaming’, which existed as a demo for years but only found its final chorus and arrangement during these sessions. It’s hard to single out one song because I truly like all of them, but my heart often leans toward tracks like ‘Real Thing’ or ‘How Do You Feel?’ which tend to be a bit overlooked.
With ‘Greyscale’, it’s even more difficult to pick favorites because I genuinely believe it’s one of our strongest albums in terms of songwriting. Whether it’s because we worked on it for many years or simply because we’ve grown as writers, I’m not sure. I rarely listen to our own music, but with this album, I’m often amazed by how varied, simple yet complex, and emotionally rich electronic pop music can sound. I think we can be proud of the result, which makes choosing a single song quite tough. ‘Shine’ is a really strong track; I love the cinematic grandeur of ‘Still’, the quintessential CAMOUFLAGE blend of styles in ‘Laughing’, and the powerful, emotional arrangement of ‘End of Words’. For the band as a whole, ‘Leave Your Room Behind’ is probably a highlight, as we had tried to complete it for years but always fell short. In the end, we finally managed to deliver it as it is: a simple, electronic pop song filled with emotion and atmosphere.
Your almost entirely sold-out ‘Rewind To The Future & Goodbye’ German tour has come to an end. How did it feel to be back on stage together after nine years?
The tour was a lot of fun and filled with incredible moments. Of course, Oliver’s decision to step back was a significant turning point for us, but based on the fans’ reactions, I feel we adapted well to this change in our live set. Naturally, Marcus and I would always prefer all three of us to be on stage, but at some point, you have to accept new realities and learn how to handle them. Together with our fellow musicians Jochen Schmalbach (drums) and Volker Hinkel (guitar, keyboards) – occasionally replaced by Stefan “Snöt” Fehling at certain shows – and our experienced live crew, we put together a fantastic show that did justice to our 40 year band anniversary. The response to the tour sparked new energy and excitement for future plans. Oliver is still very much part of the band, and we’re working together on new songs and everything else involved in running a band with a discography like ours.
How do you decide the live setlist, is it like three people trying to paint with the same brush or is it much easier than that?
For the recent tour, we aimed to create a shared time journey. That meant leaving out some of the usual live favorites but instead highlighting other aspects of our band’s history. Of course, the setlist was built on our classics, complemented by key milestones from our perspective and even some new tracks to signal the future. Initially, the setlist was just an idea that felt perfectly balanced to us, but you never know for sure how it will resonate in reality. After our first rehearsals, we were confident it was a great mix, but we were still eagerly awaiting the audience’s reactions!
Photo by Klaus Mellenthin
Despite the tour title, are there any plans for a new album? Does the album have a place still in the modern music marketplace?
There are definitely plans for new songs. Whether those will culminate in an album remains to be seen… we’ll see where it takes us. An album is, of course, a significant undertaking and should stand tall alongside our previously released records. That said, we always think in terms of albums, though our definition leans more towards the length of a traditional vinyl record rather than the full 74-minute package that was once the standard. At some point, we noticed that nearly all of our favorite albums have that classic format of about 2 x 24 minutes. Put simply, I’d prefer 10 really good songs over an album that feels endless.
Conceptually, we still see an album as the ideal collection of songs, even though many people today prefer individual tracks or playlists. This shift hasn’t entirely passed us by either. In the past, we loved crafting “transitions” between tracks within an album, whether with pauses or clear overlaps. Unfortunately, when songs are shuffled randomly on streaming platforms, these transitions often end up clashing. Over time, I think this will lead to fewer such transitions being designed into album tracklists.
As for the “Goodbye” in the tour title and the possibility of the band coming to an end, all I can say is that we have no plans for that yet. If that time comes, we’ll handle it the same way we’ve approached everything else over the last 41 years: on our own terms.
Photo by Walter Cymbal
What is your favourite moment in 40 years of CAMOUFLAGE?
When we played the finished version of ‘The Great Commandment’ to others in 1987, the feedback was overwhelmingly positive. We were confident in our song, but it was hard to imagine what lay ahead in the coming months. A few days before the single’s official release, we were invited to perform it on the TV show ‘Spruchreif’. The reaction to that appearance, along with the rest of our promotional efforts, was so overwhelming that a few weeks later, we debuted at No27 on the German singles chart. We received the chart news during a radio interview in Hamburg, and we were ecstatic – it felt like a daydream. As we left the radio station in the car, the sun was shining, and the radio coincidentally played ‘Wonderful Life’ by BLACK – it couldn’t have been a more fitting soundtrack for that moment.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Heiko Maile
‘1984’ was the dystopian novel by George Orwell but ‘1984: The Year Pop Went Queer’ is a book by journalist, pop fanatic and DJ Ian Wade that looks back at the year in which mainstream pop took gay subculture overground.
The glitterball shone bright as pop came out of the closet; but as Simon Napier-Bell, manager of JOHN’S CHILDREN featuring a young Marc Bolan, JAPAN and WHAM! once theorised: “British pop music has always been homosexual to the core…”
With witty and unpretentious accounts of the year’s main players, ‘1984: The Year Pop Went Queer’ studies the impact these groundbreaking musicians had before, during and after on the gay community and popular culture. It documents how they were able to break down barriers, raise consciousness and set in motion the first nascent ripples in a pond that are still being felt today.
From George Michael of WHAM! to JUDAS PRIEST’s Rob Halford with CULTURE CLUB, FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD, BRONSKI BEAT, DEAD OR ALIVE and PET SHOP BOYS in between, 1984 was a year of subversion through the pop charts as some of the brightest ‘out’ artists, biggest global acts and closeted pop stars took queer pop and culture to the very top of the charts in front of an unsuspecting public who expressed equal parts glee, bafflement and disgust.
But while some mothers were bigger than others and buying ‘Relax’ without batting an eyelid, the period had the dark backdrop of right-wing bigotry and homophobia as well as an emerging AIDS crisis which both shaped and defined pop culture at the time, as well as casting a long shadow for the years that followed.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK had a delightful chat with Ian Wade about the genesis of ‘1984: The Year Pop Went Queer’ to make it one of the most essential music books of 2024.
What made you want to write this book, was there a personal mission about it?
It originally started almost as a love letter to FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD in a way. A few years ago, it was Stonewall’s 50th Anniversary and I felt like doing a book like one of those “1000 Albums You Should Hear Before You Die” type things but from a gay perspective, the LGBT+ record collection in a way, that would cover things like Lou Reed, Bowie and kd lang, that sort of thing.
But as I was going through the years and which albums I should feature, 1984 just kept growing and growing. Not only have you got the tent poles of FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD and BRONSKI BEAT, watching things like ‘Top Of The Pops’ in 1984 where you saw a lot of gay records coming through like Eartha Kitt ‘Where Is My Man?’, ‘I Am What I Am’ by Gloria Gaynor and ‘It’s Raining Men’, I was interested as to why that was happening, because those records had been hanging around for so long in the clubs, why were they coming through at that point. That led me down the HI-NRG route which was where the electronic music interest was.
One George got replaced by another George at the top of the pop tree…
Yes, Boy George began 1984 as one of the biggest stars and then it all fell apart with ‘The War Song’ shall we say! *laughs*
People like Elton John and David Bowie were around, Elton married a lady and David Bowie was surrounded by his children, all those people who cited him as an inspiration like Holly Johnson and Boy George, but he came back with his worst album ‘Tonight’, which had a couple of good tracks, but it was his first really really bad album, and he almost seemed to want to distance himself from all them. So all these threads began to come together.
PET SHOP BOYS released the first version of ‘West End Girls’ that year and part of this book became how these people formed or came through, what they did in 1984 and what they did next. So there were some who didn’t have the greatest year but what happened next was quite interesting.
Then there were people like Cyndi Lauper and Madonna, who both entered the UK Top 75 in the same week which is kind of fascinating and Cyndi was seen at the time as the bigger star, but then Madonna had by the end of the year decided to become an icon with ‘Like A Virgin’! So I look at what they did next with AIDS awareness and all that kind of stuff.
Also, Stock Aitken & Waterman, they began at the beginning of 1984 and their subsequent breakthrough of Divine being their first Top20 hit, Hazell Dean being their first Top5 hit and DEAD OR ALIVE going to No1 as the first of a good dozen or so, that defined the sound of pop for the rest of the decade.
So it all started coming together in these 12 months, this hovering of gay culture. Up until then, you had Boy George and Marc Almond being very coy, this whole “I haven’t met the right girl yet” type vibes when interviewed in ‘Smash Hits’, but then with people like Bronski and Frankie, especially Bronski who were out and proud. In the background culturally, there was stuff like AIDS coming through and rife homophobia, you had Thatcher and real unpleasant things going on; you had Reagan not acknowledging AIDS until his second term the next year, so it was an interesting backdrop to what was going on.
I think for a lot of people, pop music is their 3 minute access to a different world, and the easiest form of culture to digest, and 1984 was full of it.
So in the context of 1984, you’ve got this story but the way you have told it is quite interesting, because you’ve not gone for the chronological path, you’ve opted to tell the stories of the key players in each chapter, so how this this concept come about?
I think that was the best way of putting it across because I originally had 9000 words on Frankie. This was 5 years ago during lockdown when there was nothing to do, so I wanted to see if I could write about Bronski and that’s how it carried on. One of my favourite books of all time is ‘The Best Of Smash Hits’ which came out 40 years ago but it had all the classic interviews from THE SEX PISTOLS to BAND AID… that book is one where you can just open up and read about a particular act or whatever. So I wanted that sort of vibe… yes, please read all the book but if you fancy a bit of a laugh. It helped in a way by doing that because included are Frankie, Bronski, Divine, Sylvester… JUDAS PRIEST! So it helped isolate those people and you knew where to go if you just wanted to read about that particular person.
So that was the idea, that you could dip in and out. One of my favourite books at the moment is Miranda Sawyer’s book ‘Uncommon People: Britpop and Beyond in 20 Songs’, that goes through a song and an act per chapter. There’s a couple of bands that I’m not particularly interested in like SLEEPER but I can go to BLUR, SUEDE and ELASTICA, do you know what I mean? That’s what I want people to get from my book and hopefully they do.
In this age of Wikipedia and that kind of thing, it’s very frustrating to just go there and see that as the bible as everything. It’s more important than ever to celebrate facts and not lazily just assume Wikipedia knows everything.
So you start the book with FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD and they were the seed of this book, so were they the most important act of 1984 in your opinion?
Yeah! In a way they were… originally the book was meant to be a bit more chronological because they were on the first ‘Top Of The Pops’ of the year and it was going to end with DEAD OR ALIVE about to take over 1985. In the end, I moved things around slightly.
For me, Frankie, aside from all the controversy and all that nonsense, remix culture came through with them. Yes, there had been some amazing 12 inches and that sort of thing, but at that point, taking a song, pulling it apart again, thinking of different audiences and dancefloors and all that stuff, they, or rather Trevor Horn, pushed that forward. He did the ‘New York Remix’ of ‘Relax’ after going to a, well, New York night club and thinking “this will work like this”, it was a combination of marketing and remix culture, I think Frankie brought that in.
To me, 1984 felt like the end of the New Pop era because, you can ask a lot of people about the 80s, and they will ask back “what half of the 80s?”; some people’s 80s goes up to 1984 like me, I came into 1980 as a huge SPECIALS and MADNESS fan, then THE HUMAN LEAGUE and synthpop took over my life and then Frankie seemed like the end of all that. After that, things became professional and branded and a little bit boring, there wasn’t was this spirit that “we’ve kind of made it all up”.
If you look at the classic records in the first half of the 80s, it was all the freaks and weirdos like THE HUMAN LEAGUE and YAZOO on ‘Top Of The Pops’ but afterwards, it was all focus groups and “Will this song work? Will that do?”, people were overthinking things a bit too much! The first half of the 80s felt a bit more like The Wild West and Frankie were the bridge between the branding professionalism but also Holly Johnson coming through punk and new wave, it was people like him who had become themselves.
You look at the stats in the Guinness Book Of British Hit Singles book, they were the first band to have 3 No1 with their first 3 singles since GERRY & THE PACEMAKERS, so it all felt quite revolutionary, that this kind of band with the first ‘Relax’ video would become the biggest band of the year! REALLY?
Do you think FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD would have been as big, without the Mike Read-led BBC ban? It’s interesting now what Mike Read did, because history has now shown him to be a bigot, a UKIP member and a right-wing tw*t as we have found with other personalities from that era…
It was interesting because the ban happened once ‘Relax’ was in the Top 10; remember, they first appeared on ‘Top Of The Pops’ when it was at No 36 and then shot up to No 6 having been outside the Top 40 for like 3 months! It wasn’t necessarily the ban although the video wasn’t being shown… I think it would have done the business irrespective of the ban. I think Mike Read positioned himself as a moral arbiter but it had got to No 2 when the ban came in…
‘Relax’ wasn’t shown on ‘Top Of The Pops’ for 6 weeks but were people buying it because it wasn’t shown? I don’t think that was the case really because there were a lot of big guns coming back like QUEEN with ‘Radio Ga Ga’ which was almost precision-made to rescue them after their apparent failure of ‘Hot Space’, which is their masterpiece incidentally! QUEEN needed to become QUEEN again, for all the sniffiness of Roger Taylor and Brian May that ‘Hot Space’ was “a bit gay”, they were kept off No 1 by the gayest record ever made.
Frankie would have succeeded in general but it’s amazing to think ‘Relax’ hung around all year and went back up to No2 without being heard! But I have to stress that it was just a BBC thing that it wasn’t being broadcast, I believe various other commercial stations were doing the same. After a certain point in the evening, the BBC would play it. But Mike Read aided it into it being a thing when it was already a great song.
It has now become a party record in a way even though it’s not particularly danceable! Whenever I’ve DJ-ed, well, the single version of ‘Welcome To The Pleasure Dome’ is the far groovier record as ‘Relax’ has sort of become like ‘Hi Ho Silver Lining’ or ‘YMCA’ *laughs*
So, what did you think of the ‘Welcome To The Pleasure Dome’ album? It was a big event because it was a double, had controversial packaging and all that, I personally found it a disappointment…
I think I was more in awe of it because it wasn’t something I bought on its release, it was a Christmas present. So yes, I’d bought all the two singles but when I got to listen to it, I was scratching my head a little with the second disc… I think for a generation of people, that was the definitive version of ‘Born To Run’ but a lot of it wasn’t as exciting as disc one which had the singles but even the title track, you were just scratching your head because it was essentially a prog track! You wanted sirens, you wanted “DOOF!”, you wanted someone nattering about nuclear bunkers, all that sort of stuff so it felt like after the singles fronted by Holly and Paul, they wanted to showcase ‘The Lads’ a little bit more. The ‘Welcome To The Pleasure Dome’ album was not necessarily something I would sit all the way through, but have grown to love over the years.
It wasn’t a good album listening experience compared with BRONSKI BEAT ‘The Age Of Consent’ which blew it out of the water…
With BRONSKI BEAT, why they were important was because being gay or other was seen as being being “drag” like Boy George or Danny La Rue, this sort of “nudge nudge, wink wink, mind your backs” sort of stuff. But BRONSKI BEAT were the guys who looked like your neighbours or people at work or school, so they were incredibly important for gay people, where they could see themselves and relate to that, but also to everybody else, it was “we’re just like you”.
Did you see BRONSKI BEAT’s first ever TV appearance on ‘Oxford Road Show’ in 1984 because I thought that was nothing short of startling!
NO! It sounds really weird now, but with my mum and dad, we didn’t have a video recorder, and there was only one TV in the house, so I couldn’t go up to my room to watch these things. So things like ‘Oxford Road Show’, I watched retrospectively.
So, linking BRONSKI BEAT back to SOFT CELL, why do you think synthesizers and drum machines proved to be the perfect setting for self-expression from gay artists?
There’s the “instantness” of it, it was the technology to make the music quickly… it’s interesting because I’ve been writing about ‘Last Christmas’ by WHAM! Although it’s not a synthpop record at all, the equipment – a LinnDrum and a Roland Juno 60 is literally peak synthpop. I think it was a way of being more straightforward, more simplistic, also there was strength in being a duo so there were fewer people to rub ideas off.
So with SOFT CELL, there was Dave Ball who was seen as plonking away on an ironing board while Marc Almond was emoting, and that’s why I think synthpop has always been fantastic, an amazing-looking figure at the front, like with Phil Oakey of THE HUMAN LEAGUE with his amazing hair, it had an accessibility and pin-up-ness.
Now if BRONSKI BEAT had tried to make a dance record without synths, they would have had to be more Britfunk like LINX or early FREEEZ, that kind of thing, so the synthesizer helped access the clubs a lot quicker. Prior to that, you had Bobby Orlando and Arthur Baker in America, these synth-based records coming through like Shannon, D-Train, this sort of stuff that worked on the dancefloor but were also amazing songs. These helped get the message across quicker than having to deal with four other guys with real instruments being authentic.
I spoke to Gloria Jones a few weeks ago and discussed with her that the anguished lyric to ‘Tainted Love’ gets more resonance when backed by the chill of Dave Ball’s synths. I would perhaps argue that the lyrics of ‘Smalltown Boy’ gains greater resonance because of the stark coldness of the synth backing…
I’m with you on that definitely… I think it adds to the emotion and if you look at say, YAZOO ‘Only You’ or EURYTHMICS’ ‘Sweet Dreams’ they are both quite minimal in their instrumental melodies and lines, but how much emotion is in both of those? They made the singers shine more and fill up without having to let a guitarist or drummer have a moment. It also threw back to the DIY aspect as well, that people could literally press a couple of buttons on accessible instruments and get an emotion far quicker than going to rehearsal rooms for about 6 months.
PET SHOP BOYS just had the one single in 1984, but it was an important one in the first Bobby Orlando produced version of ‘West End Girls’. So do you think PET SHOP BOYS effectively took over the mantle after SOFT CELL imploded because the concept had so much potential mileage?
There’s a lot of things in the SOFT CELL handbook, it was like “how to be a band and be successful, AND how not to be…” when I think of their trajectory, like “oh this single isn’t happening, let’s do a cover” and then 18 months later, you have 2 albums, a remix album and a load of hit singles, they’re touring, they’re discovering drugs, it’s literally non-stop! In 2024, we are more aware of mental health and SOFT CELL, if they had taken their time a little bit, I don’t think they’d have split up when they first did. There’s a lot of bands of that era – ALTERED IMAGES, HAIRCUT 100 for example – like that.
I think Neil Tennant is like a scholar of pop, he could see what was going on and how not to overdo it at the time. By deciding not to tour with their first few albums, they were able to excel. PET SHOP BOYS were allowed to build a whole world and the video age helped. You can also see that later with bands like SUEDE and BLUR, yes they were touring but there was also time to develop their craft on B-sides and things like that.
Whereas if PET SHOP BOYS had been shoved into touring almost immediately after they reached No1 in the UK and USA and had to trudge that live circuit… well, you look at their discography from the second version of ‘West End Girls’ to their end of the 80s where there’s 4 albums and endless brilliant B-sides. Neil Tennant was very canny in taking lots of notes from various things, and he worked out how to and how not to do it. Without the first half of the 80s, I don’t think PET SHOP BOYS would have, to quote Neil Tennant, had their “imperial phase” *laughs*
What are your 5 songs from 1984 that mean the most to you in the context of your book?
One thing I discovered is that a lot of the stuff I discovered in 1984 had already been out in 1983, so like ‘Relax’, ‘Let The Music Play’, ‘Searchin’ and ‘Just Be Good To Me’, all these sorts of things had been around for a while.
So a far as stuff actually released in 1984 goes, ‘Two Tribes’ by Frankie is essential. ‘Smalltown Boy’, I think Jimmy Somerville owes me dinner for the number of times I’ve mentioned that song in interviews now, but it epitomises everything that is said in the book and its context.
I would add ‘High Energy’ by Evelyn Thomas, that’s the peak of a whole world of dance music for that vibe. Oh gosh, I would also say ‘West End Girls’ and ‘You Spin Me Round’ by DEAD OR ALIVE because Stock Aitken and Waterman took HI-NRG and a very visible “gender bending” pop star who had threatened to be famous since forever to No1.
‘You Spin Me Round’ IS the thumping dance song that maybe ‘Relax’ sort of isn’t as you mentioned earlier?
Yes, it changed their fortunes… when I went to the British Library to research old NMEs and Melody Makers, Pete Burns seems to be in those every week! Him and Boy George were bitching at each other in the press.
As I mention in the book, ‘You Spin Me Round’ is part of a chain of events, had Pete Burns not heard Hazell Dean, he would not have approached Stock Aitken & Waterman, had ‘You Spin Me Round’ not happened, you wouldn’t have got ‘Venus’ by BANANARAMA, there’s a before and an after that too because you could argue with ‘Blue Monday’, there would be no ‘Love Reaction’ by Divine…
I think ‘You Think You’re A Man’ is a key moment in the story of 1984, it was kind of like “BOOM”when Divine got on ‘Top Of The Pops’?
I saw it back in the day, I was about 14, it just felt really strange and adversarial, without knowing the full Divine story at the time with stuff like eating sh*t and everything in ‘Pink Flamingos’! *laughs*
This was somebody who John Waters described as “Elizabeth Taylor meets Godzilla”, this confrontational thing. But I don’t know if it felt gay or not really, it just felt like this incredible pop song and Divine wasn’t about beauty, it was almost a throwback to glam… I used to be terrified of the filters they used on SWEET and SLADE when I was 4 or 5…
Oh, it wasn’t just me then! *laughs*
…you were a bit like “UGH!”
HI-NRG was being written about but I didn’t fully connect it as a thing in ‘Smash Hits’, but once you’d cracked the ceiling of HI-NRG, a complete world of Ian Levine, Bobby O and these floor fillers opened up. Neil Tennant had mentioned Divine and was the one in ‘Smash Hits’ who was bring in these kinds of records like Bobby O when he revived the singles, so for me it was like a retrospective thing and “OH MY GOD!”
But if you were a little older on the gay scene, Divine was like seeing someone from your scene on camera. He was a huge “F*CK YOU” and also very important. I think Pete Waterman was very canny, it was about whether it was a good pop song or not, the Divine stuff with Bobby O was very clubby, a lot of repetition and innuendo while ‘You Think You’re A Man’ could be sung by anybody really.
Do you think as a result of 1984 and we mustn’t forget there is a dark side to the story as well with AIDS, that we in a better place for LGBT+ peopletoday? After a wonderful period of acceptance and I include the treatment of immigrants in that too, I think sadly we are back in a precarious position again…
It’s an awkward period, especially with things like Trump, the rhetoric that they were spewing out on the campaign trail, he’s not even properly in yet, but with transgender people and the bathrooms, it’s become such a culture war. It feels a bit terrifying… I don’t know if it’s been amplified through social media, but you look at certain threads that pop up and someone has shared, whether its bots or whatever, human beings are coming up with this sort of cr*p and I think it is all too precarious.
I am going to be updating bits and pieces for the paperback because even with the Outroduction where I am talking about how things are today, it’s kind have gone “oh sh*t!”. I think the popularity of the right wing where it creeps into various government agendas around the world, even if they just win slightly, it puts those governments into a stalemate because no-one has got any real power. So it’s more a thing now of who can say the worst thing to get the votes, that’s what it feels like because there’s been a few elections around Europe where the far right have crept in a little bit more. It does terrify me, there are people who would quite happily wipe out same sex marriage and everything we fought for.
We really should have been alert when the Roe versus Wade U.S. Supreme Court thing was overturned… if that can happen, then the gloves are off with someone like Trump who is going to overturn everything and exonerate people who have been rightly jailed for their crimes. It’s just going to be horrendous and I am terrified.
I was going through my Facebook memories and there was something about a night club shooting and someone had written “You wanted us to keep it behind closed doors, but then you still came into our spaces…” – there’s this entitlement where the right wing want to control us, whoever we are, and they have to have the last word. That’s a terrifying state to have to think about.
Touch wood, I feel like I’ve kind of had it easy but a lot of gay friends in America are genuinely scared.
Was 1984 the best year in pop?
1984 was a fantastic year for pop. Top Three definitely in the 80s alongside 1981 and 1982. You look at half the records, and not just the stuff discussed in the book, and it was full of million sellers, two of the biggest Christmas records of all time and tracks like ‘Thriller’ and ‘Ghostbusters’ that are huge around Halloween too. Everyone has their favourite years, but for me personally, 1984 is hard to beat.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Ian Wade
An Englishman In Berlin, in 2015, a fascinating and enjoyable documentary with the life of Mark Reeder acting as its narrative, ‘B-Movie: Lust & Sound In West Berlin 1979 – 1989’ captured the music, art and chaos of the divided city before its infamous wall came down.
Manchester-born Mark Reeder was friends with Mick Hucknall and Ian Curtis but became fascinated by German electronic music, leading to him to venture into die Bundesrepublik in search of records he couldn’t get back home. Curiosity led him to hitchhike to West Berlin and fascinated by the characters he encountered, he stayed.
West Berlin became the creative melting pot for sub- and pop-culture. Before the iron curtain fell, everything and anything seemed possible. Using a fast-paced collage of mostly unreleased film and TV footage from a frenzied but creative decade, starting with punk and ending with the Love Parade, life in in der Mauerstadt where neat the days were short and the nights were endless as its residents lived for the moment.
‘B-Movie: Lust & Sound in West-Berlin 1979-1989’ was accompanied by a fitting soundtrack and this ‘B-Music’ is now reissued by Edel Motion as a pink + yellow vinyl double LP; to coincide with this tenth anniversary release, Mark Reeder looked back with ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK at ‘B-Movie: Lust & Sound In West Berlin 1979 – 1989’…
As it goes into its tenth year since its release, ‘B-Movie’ still endures, why do you think that is?
I think it is simply because the film never really ages. The images you see on screen, are already old, having been filmed in West-Berlin of the 1980s. It also reaches a very wide audience too, not only nostalgic pensioners who can remember living through those times, but the fact that it resonates with younger, and contemporary audiences too. People who are captivated by its imagery, humour and positive message.
I tried to present an inspiring message of hope, to show people that regardless of the difficulties we endured, we were able to remain creative in the face of adversity.
In hindsight, would you like to have done anything different with ‘B-Movie’?’
Not really. At first, I was frustrated that we couldn’t release the film internationally, as I wanted everyone to see it, but meanwhile I believe the fact that it isn’t available everywhere at the touch of a button, makes it more desirable, and has given it even more meaning. It’s something to discover, to tell your friends and you have to search for it.
The only thing I wish Edel would have done, was to release the 5.1 surround versions of all the songs as isolated tracks on the Blu-Ray/DVD. They could have branched the tracks, so that you got to hear the full song in stereo or 5.1 surround. You honestly can’t imagine how impressive EINSTÜRZENDE NEUBAUTEN, MALARIA! or JOY DIVISION sound in full surround. You only get a small taste from the film.
The film has only had a limited broadcast on TV arts channels, has that been intentional?
No, that wasn’t intentional, as such, it just wasn’t considered by the producers. This has resulted in the film not being available on TV Networks outside of Germany, and the film has never been screened in the UK on TV.
The producers initially thought that the films specific subject was really only going to be interesting for a limited German audience, and so they only cleared the music rights for Germany, film festivals and special events, such as the UK tour put together by the ‘Sound of Free Speech’ film director Brandon Spivey and Tim Burge (of Mercury Machine) which was hosted by the Goethe Institut.
You’ve toured the world with showings of ‘B-Movie’, which places do you remember you received the most interesting and maybe surprising reactions from?
There have been quite a few. The screening in Taipei, Taiwan for Living Green was very impressive. Jesse Chen and Sebastian Wu made a beautiful exhibition of my photos in a former (Japanese) Police Station and screened the film over a week. They also designed an impressive brochure for it, that looked like an East German Passport. Another impressive screening was at the DMZ film festival on the border between North and South Korea, where they projected ‘B-Movie’ on the side of a huge apartment block every night, for five nights.
Also, the two-month Goethe Institute sponsored tour of China was also very impressive, as we never screened it in cinemas there, only in locations that were either clubs or live venues. I also screened ‘B-Movie’ in Moscow in December 2019 in the city’s biggest Soviet era cinema, which I think was full of Navalny supporters. They too had made an exhibition in an arts school, whereby they had recreated my old Berlin apartment for my photo exhibition. I was told by the Russian viewers that ‘B-Movie’ is inspiring to them because it is not the usual PR documentary film about an artist’s success, riches and fame. It is a true story, about failure and survival.
‘B-Movie’ continues to be used as the video backdrop for whenever NEW ORDER perform ‘Singularity’ live, how did that come about originally?
After Bernard Sumner came to the first UK screening at Home in Manchester, he was very impressed by the footage and feeling of the film, and he asked me if NEW ORDER could use it for their video to ‘Singularity’. Bernard often came to visit me Berlin in the 1980s and he said he could really identify with the images and atmosphere he saw on the screen, which he thought complimented the subject of the song.
NEW ORDER’s video is a three-minute edit of the film, and in most cases, it’s the first and only introduction most people have to ‘B-Movie’. In return, it has not only promoted their song, but also the film, and as an added bonus I got to remix ‘Singularity’ too.
The double vinyl of the soundtrack gets a reissue and features about half of the material that was included on the double CD version, how did you go about deciding what went on?
That was a very difficult choice between the film’s director Klaus Maeck and myself, and it was really only determined in the end by who would give us the compilation rights. For example, I really wanted my special reworking of EINSTÜRZENDE NEUBAUTEN on the compilation, but for internal and personal reasons, they didn’t wish to be included, which we had to respect.
Others wanted too much money, so they were automatically excluded. In the end though, I think we found a nice balance of indie artists from the period mixed with a few hits, and more established artists. Yes, to commemorate the film’s tenth anniversary in 2025, Edel have decided to re-release the soundtrack just in time for Christmas on pink and yellow vinyl. This is to make up the colours of the cover, which in turn is a stylistic representation of the German flag.
Photo by Hermann Vaske
Can you remember your first reaction when you heard ‘Komakino’ by JOY DIVISION which was inspired by the band’s experience of the Kant-Kino gig you put on?
I can remember Rob Gretton telling me that the band had recorded a song about their experience in Berlin, and that it was being released as a free flexi-disc. I was very excited. He sent me a huge box, from which I took piles of singles to all the West-Berlin record shops, for them to give away. I think most probably ended up in the bin.
The sound of the flexi was pretty dreadful to be honest, and it sounded like someone was sweeping the studio floor with a stiff brush while they were making it. It didn’t really do the band much good. The track had only ever been a demo mix by Martin Hannett, but Tony and Rob thought it would be a good way to promote the band further and fill a space while they were finishing ‘Closer’. After the release of the album, it was apparent that the song was very different to all the other tracks on ‘Closer’ and it didn’t really fit in. It remains a stand-alone.
When it came to making the soundtrack for ‘B-Movie’, I wanted to revisit this song and rework it so that it would sound good in the cinema. It was a daunting task. Thankfully I had an unmastered version to use as a basis, but it still took my studio partner Micha Adam and I about three months to deconstruct it and then reconstruct it in 5.1 surround sound and stereo. Therefore, the version you hear on the ‘B-Movie’ Soundtrack is exclusive to the film and this soundtrack album.
‘You Need The Drugs’ is the recurring track in the film and is a bonafide classic, but was it obvious early on that it would be the signature tune of the film?
Yes actually, I think the moment we heard the demo, we were all in agreement that the song should be the film’s theme tune. I initially wanted to write something, but when Westbam proposed the song, and I DJ’d it at a party, I realised this was definitely it.
Richard Butler’s vocals were so perfect and they reflected the subject of the movie so well. When we got the vocal files, we realised Richard had recorded about 6 proper versions in the studio, but none of them sounded as rough as his original early morning demo version, which he had just sung into his laptop. We used that vocal. We also made a special 5.1 surround version for the film, which is a slightly different mix to Westbam’s original album version.
There are so many highlights but if you had to pick one scene or moment, what would it be?
My favourite scene is probably MALARIA! performing ‘Kaltes Klares Wasser’.
MALARIA! feature on the album, what is your favourite memory of them and their music?
Oh, that is a hard one. I am still friends with the girls and I have many fond memories from the time they were an active band up to today. Together with Elisabeth Recker who started the Monogam record label, Gudrun and Bettina were the driving force in my opinion of the whole avant-garde scene in Berlin. They had a definitive agenda and idea of what they wanted to do and sound.
They made no compromises. That was very inspiring to me. I loved the fact they discarded all the rules of rock & roll and made it up themselves. Their music is an enduring testimony to that attitude. When I think about it though, my favourite tour was when we went to Italy. Although the gigs weren’t particularly successful, the experience was enlightening.
Photo by Peter Gruchot
Do you have any favourite tracks on the double vinyl soundtrack?
My favourite track is… I have no idea. It works as a listen through album. Almost all the tracks featured on the soundtrack album are special versions which Micha Adam and I created for the film. They are exclusive to ‘B-Movie’.
You wanted ‘Heroes’ on the original soundtrack but licensing proved prohibitive, were there any other tracks you would have to have included?
The producer originally wanted ‘Heroes’ as the intro to ‘B-Movie’, and I suggested we use the German version ‘Helden’, but that never happened due to publishing rights and budget issues, and so we used ‘Holidays in the Sun’ instead, as that was also a very inspirational track for me at the time. I also wanted to use ‘Nothing To Do’ by V2, as they were also friends and one of the first Manchester punk bands after Buzzcocks. It is a great song that summed up life in Manchester during the late 70s, but unfortunately, it never made it into the final film version. Another song we couldn’t get clearance for was the original version of ‘Kebabträume’ by DAF, we wanted that too. So, I ended up making my own homage with my track, ‘Mauerstadt’.
While there is a darkness to ‘B-Movie’, it is positive in its possibilities… with the world in the situation it is at the moment and elements of deja vu, we know the fears but what are the hopes for the future in your view?
Since ‘B-Movie’ was first released in 2015, I have had a lot of young people coming to me and saying that they wished that they had lived through these times. The images are somehow so romantic and exciting. The time appears to be creative and inspiring. It wasn’t easy to survive back then. Well, I feel we are back where we started.
In the 1980s, backwater West-Berlin was full of draft dodgers and artistic refugees, all fleeing from the restricting lifestyles of West Germany. It was full of all those people that didn’t fit into what was perceived as normal West German society. No one really had any money, but it was thrilling. We struggled to do the things we wanted and yet in retrospect, we achieved so much through our creative thinking.
The Cold War hung over the city like a shroud. The threat of confrontation and nuclear holocaust was literally something that could happen just down the walled-off road. It gave Berlin a subliminally tense ambience. Everyone seemed to live their lives as if it was their last day on Earth.
It could be all over tomorrow, so let’s do it now, while we are still here – was the general attitude. Meanwhile, Berlin has become an international city. The draft dodgers and misfits come not from West-Germany, but from all over the World. The cold-war threat of nuclear holocaust is back too and that could kick off a little further down the road.
Life is like a living in a thriller again. I look at the present, and think we have a very similar situation to the 80s. So now it is time for younger people to grasp the moment and be creative within the confines of the situation. Use the time. I believe that the uncertainly of the situation will bring with it new music and new artists, all wanting to express themselves. Hopefully many will be inspired by B-Movie to understand that whatever they are dreaming about, it is possible.
You just can’t wait for someone else to do it, you have to do it yourself, and do it now.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Mark Reeder
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