The musical vehicle of Thomas Lüdke, German EBM veterans THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT first gained wider recognition in Europe with ‘Push!’ in 1986.
THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT’s debut album ‘Current News’ featuring songs like ‘Make A Device’ became a cult favourite, inspiring Norwegian electro rockers APOPTYGMA BERZERK along the way.
Meanwhile, Thomas Lüdke’s towering stage presence and dark alternative club sound made THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT an appealing concert proposition.
Beginning life as THE INVINCIBLE LIMIT, Thomas Lüdke has also been involved in side projects such as GOD IS LSD, SOMA and THE MAO TSE TUNG EXPERIENCE. Although currently very active on the live circuit with a notable opening slot with APOPTYGMA BERZERK on their recent Summer tour, THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT’s last album ‘Anyway’ came out in 2015.
A single entitled ‘Nein!’ was issued in 2017, but with the release of possibly his most accessible song yet in ‘Coming Home’, Thomas Lüdke has promised a new album very soon. In a break from recording, Thomas Lüdke spoke about the past, present and future of THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT.
How did THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT come to its tense Teutonic electronic sound?
I never had the impression of sounding particularly Teutonic. But the harder electronic bass sounds, I liked very much when I started to make music. Maybe it’s the influence of the dark basement where I started. 🙂
Many people also claimed the early TIS sound was very grim. I, on the other hand, always had a positive attitude. Probably you cannot just deny its origin. 🙂
Was it always your intention to work solo in THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT?
No, in the beginning I always wanted a band. And I formed this band for my first project. But since there were different opinions in the approach, I decided to start a second project with THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT. There I composed the music alone and had only guest musicians for live performances.
Had DAF and DIE KRUPPS been much of an influence on you?
DIE KRUPPS rather less, but mostly it was FAD GADGET, KRAFTWERK, DAF and JEAN MICHEL JARRE (in that order). In addition, during my childhood I was influenced by Rock ‘n’ Roll (Beatles, Buddy Holly) and Country (Johnny Cash). My dad liked to hear this music and he also played me DAF for the first time. 🙂
How did you decide that you would express yourself in English rather than German?
I think English words sound better with my music. Maybe I’m also negatively influenced by Deutsche Schlager music, I do not really like this kind of music. 🙂
Your breakthrough was with ‘Push!’, can your remember what happened from recording the song to it getting heard?
When the song was finished in one night, I went to my favourite nightclub the next day and the DJ played the song. The response was immediately very good. Many people came to the DJ and wanted to know if this is already available. Also my record label Last Chance Records was immediately enthusiastic and released the record in a short time. It was almost an instant success.
How do you look back on the ‘Current News’ album released by ZYX Records?
I did ‘Current News’ under a certain pressure of time. After the success of ‘Push’, the label wanted to quickly release a long-playing record. I was very dissatisfied with some songs and especially the studio sound. This could have been better. Nevertheless, it seems to have been received well by many people.
What synthesizers and machines were you using then? Did you have a favourite?
I have worked a lot with Kawai SX-210, Casio CZ-5000, Yamaha TX-802, Yamaha TG-77 and Yamaha RX-5. I first used the built-in sequencer of the CASIO CZ-5000 for ‘Push!’ and ‘Make A Device’. Later I used the Atari ST with the Notator / Creator software. The TX-802 is still one of my favourites. Except for the RX-5 drum machine, I still have all the devices.
Was ‘Make A Device’ a reflection of the Cold War tensions of the period?
Of course, like many people back then, I was also worried that somebody would “push the button”. But otherwise I was and am rather an apolitical person. But ‘Make A Device’ is more about not falling into lethargy and getting your life under control. But of course, it cannot be ruled out that the “Basic Sadness” was created by the signs of the times. 🙂
You recorded two more albums ‘The Rollercoaster Revolution’ and ‘Can Sex Be Sin’, but then things went comparatively quiet for THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT until the ‘Faster Life’ EP, what happened?
There was a burden of ‘Push!’. My music for some time was always reduced to this song. Also the record label and the management wanted me to do something like ‘Push!’ again. Also in this business, you often meet people who just want to take advantage of you. When I realised this, I needed a break and distance from these people. I still played live and composed new songs. But I just did not publish these songs anymore.
What made you decide on a ‘comeback’?
As I said, I did live performances all the time. The spark was only in the year 2012, it flared up again at a performance at the WGT in Leipzig. The audience’s resonance was so overwhelming that I decided to get really active again, but this time with the plan to take everything completely in my own hands, without a record label or management. So in 2015, I founded my own record label.
The 2015 album ‘Anyway’ had a lot of songs, it was like you had a lot of feelings bottled up to channel into music again?
On ‘Anyway’, there are many songs that have emerged over the years, but these usually were only in a demo song character. For ‘Anyway’, I picked it up again and composed it to the end. As a result, the album became very varied. I’ve never followed just one musical genre anyway. I like being diverse.
Was the mighty ‘Hate You’ based on personal experience? Had making the song been cathartic?
‘Hate You’ is more to be seen with a smile. I did not really felt hate for anyone or anything when I wrote the song. But of course, it’s fun to let out the feelings during live performances. In addition, ‘Hate You’ for me is the official successor to ‘Push!’. So for live performances, I mix the songs a bit together. 🙂
Do you feel that the modern environment of social media, downloading and streaming makes things easier or more difficult for an artist like yourself?
Well, on the one hand, it makes me a bit more independent of the music industry. On the other hand, the ways a song distributes itself on the internet are hard to control for a small label.
YouTube and Facebook etc are difficult to contact. When I uploaded ‘Push!’ to my YouTube channel for the first time in 2015, the channel was closed for a few weeks and I was accused of copyright infringement. I then clicked through YouTube for a long time and also clicked the hook for a legal dispute. Then it was quiet again and they finally understood. 🙂
What is ‘Irregular Times’ which was recorded as THE MAO TSE TUNG EXPERIENCE about?
It is about a teacher who despairs of the increasing lack of interest in his students. And he holds that out to them, in an ironic way. The original singer of the song Wilfried Peffgen was a teacher. Unfortunately, he died a few years ago, at the age of 70.
The new single ‘Coming Home’ has already been performed live and is maybe lighter than some of your other material, what was it inspired by and how did it develop as a song?
Actually, I had been working on a different song when I had the idea to the main melody of ‘Coming Home’. I stayed with it and finished the song in one day. The text basically treats the feeling of coming home from a few concert days and looking forward to seeing the familiar faces again.
You recently remixed ‘Backdraft’ for APOPTYGMA BERZERK and toured with them, how did this kinship begin and continue?
It was Per Aksel Lundgreen, who wrote me a few months ago on Facebook and made me the offer for the remix. Back then, he told me the story of how Stephan Groth of APOPTYGMA BERZERK became inspired to make music himself after hearing the ‘Current News’ album. Stephan liked my remix and he offered me, to support APOP on the German tour.
What do you think has been your proudest moment as THE INVISIBLE SPIRIT, either with an occasion, or a song or an acknowledgement?
This was the moment at the E-Tropolis in Oberhausen, when Stephan from APOP first told the story that he became a musician himself through my music. I have already been told this by some bands, but no-one has publicly stated so far. That made me very proud. 🙂
What’s next for THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT?
Work on a new album is in full swing. Unfortunately, everyday life occasionally throws you back a little. Otherwise, it would already be finished. But I’m still in a good mood 🙂
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Thomas Lüdke
‘Coming Home’ is released as a digital single via the usual platforms, while the album ‘Anyway’ is also still available
THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT play 6 Jahre KatzenCLUB-FESTIVAL in Munich with DIVE + TYING TIFFANY on Saturday 2nd November 2019
An electric line-up was gathered at Cologne’s Essigfabrik covering various mutations of synthesizer driven music as part of APOPTYGMA BERZERK’s 2019 European tour.
Also featuring THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT + VILE ELECTRODES, when APOPTYGMA BERZERK mainman Stephan Groth spoke to ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK earlier in the year, he explained: “It’s very important to have a whole evening that makes sense and which will tell a story.”
That story began with British South Coast duo VILE ELECTRODES. New favourite artists of Stephan Groth’s, Anais Neon and Martin Swan have rarely ventured out live in the last two years, but the opportunity to reach a new audience familiar with the darker vein of electronics was not to be missed.
Using a portable Eurorack set-up which was still quite hefty in comparison to other live acts and almost obscuring the diminutive Swan, there was also a tiny Yamaha Reface and compact Arturia MicroBrute included in the Viles armoury. As well as familiar tunes such as a reworking of ‘Empire of Wolves’ and ‘Proximity’, there was also ‘Red Bead’ and ‘Incision’ from the epic if bleak second album ‘In The Shadows Of Monuments’.
Meanwhile, there was new material in the shape of two modular derived songs ‘We Are A Prism’ and ‘The Kill The Cure’. It hinted that for VILE ELECTRODES at least, their future is perhaps not yet so bright that they’ve got to wear shades. Closing with the arpeggio-laden ‘Re-Emerge’, its frantic synthesized throb warmed up the steadily building throng at Essigfabrik.
In the vein of DAF and DIE KRUPPS but with a tighter electronic backbone, EBM veterans THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT produced the sort of alternative club music that would have been popular at The Jolly Joker in Braunschweig and the like. The project of Thomas Lüdke, the debut album ‘Current News’ became a cult favourite after its release in 1987 on ZYX Records with tracks like ‘Make A Device’ and ‘Push!’
Accompanied by Anja Vorel on synths, the towering presence of Lüdke loomed over the audience as they became captivated by the energetic body of ‘Irregular Times’. But the powertrain entered a new gear with the magnificent of ‘Hate You’, the lead single from the 2015 comeback album ‘Anyway’.
Such frenzy could only be followed by the Teutonic tension of ‘Push!’, a mighty statement that other acts now try desperately attempt to imitate, but who inevitably fall at the first fence. A great new number ‘Coming Home’ kept up the pace and the action, but there was the surprising inclusion of JOY DIVISION’s ‘Atmosphere’ as an uptempo cover to end, which worked well in the former factory complex that forms Essigfabrik.
As the crowd squeezed up to the barrier in anticipation of APOPTYGMA BERZERK, what was noticeable that save three or four goth boys of varying ages, the entire front row was female. First on stage was cheerleading keyboardist Jonas Groth, while sticksman Ted Skogman quietly followed over to the drum stool.
As the electronic pulse of ‘Weight Of The World’ began and the younger Groth vocodered “pleased to meet you”, guitarist Audun ‘Angel’ Stengel joined his bandmates before wearing a leather jacket with “YAZOO” emblazoned on the back, Stephan Groth ran to greet his excited fanbase. The industrial pop of ‘Unicorn’ continued the adrenaline rush and prompted chorus singalongs, before moving towards the anthemic rock overtones of ‘In This Together’.
Over the years, Stephan Groth has straddled EBM, synthpop, futurepop, alternative rock and more recently instrumentals with APOPTYGMA BERZERK, and the upcoming EP ‘Nein Danke!’ sees a return to the synthpop format.
From it, the excellent ‘Atom & Eve’ with its mechanised rhythms saw drummer Ted Skogman leave his kit to assist on backing vocals. As the evening continued and other drum machine led tracks were performed.
For another terrific ‘Nein Danke!’ number called ‘A Battle For The Crown’ and material from Groth’s FAIRLIGHT CHILDREN synth side-project, Skogman simply walked off the stage as the songs did not need the interference of live drums. It begs the question as to why Christian Eigner can’t voluntarily disappear for half of DEPECHE MODE’s concert set for the sake of authentic art?
With smoke machines on overdrive and huge blocks of flashing lights from across the spectrum set to stun, this was a dense display of visuals that worked well in extremes. Presenting all aspects of the APOP catalogue, the 1997 vintage ‘Love Never Dies’ revisited Groth’s grandiose futurepop adventures while from the same ‘7’ album, ‘Deep Red’ kept the body strong with Angel adding power via his chunky flanged guitar, mutating into metal when necessary.
‘Stitch’ from debut album ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ took the form of respite as Groth performed totally alone in a moody whispered Numan-esque manner, before ‘Dead Air Einz’ saw the band return for some steadfast Schaffel.
No stranger to the cover versions, Groth’s choices have been eclectic to say the least, ranging from Kim Wilde to THE CURE and METALLICA with OMD, Peter Schilling and KRAFTWERK caught some place in between. APOPTYGMA BERZERK’s cover of THE HOUSE OF LOVE’s ‘Shine On’ was a German hit in 2006 so when its familiar riff revealed itself, the crowd indulged in a spot of goth dancing.
Aesthetically akin to THE KILLERS, the energetic ‘Asleep or Awake’ which followed most definitely kept them all awake. Off ‘Welcome To Earth’, the gothic rave of ‘Kathy’s Song’ with its call-and-response interplay between the Groth brothers maximised audience involvement, even during Kathy Macintosh’s Mac OS voice centrepiece.
One thing about Stephen Groth is that he is humble gentleman who is free of ego, so it was a touching moment for him to leave brother Jonas on stage to perform ‘Nearest’; an update of ‘Near’ from ‘7’, this has been the younger Groth’s lead party piece for the last two years at APOP shows and is due for inclusion on the Nein Danke!’ EP.
Opting for the OK MINUS remix, the dark vibrant electro of ‘Eclipse’ maintained the smiles and rave friendly atmosphere. However, best of all was the superb JEAN-MICHEL JARRE meets SIMPLE MINDS trance rock fusion of ‘Until The End Of The World’ from 2002’s ‘Harmonizer’ to complete the main set; prompting a massed hands in the air moment, Stephan Groth even threw in a few Jim Kerr mannerisms during this slice of euphoric dystopia!
The appreciative crowd didn’t have to wait long for an encore, and they were rewarded with a long one, beginning with an extended ‘Starsign’ and an electro-rock cover of METALLICA’s ‘Fade to Black’. Onto the home straight, it was now time to party like it was 1993 with two final songs from ‘Soli Deo Gloria’.
Styled around the sweaty new SUBSTAAT treatment, ‘Bitch’ provided some aggressive enthralment while Stephan Groth ended the night by paying tribute to the influence of THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT on APOP and asked Thomas Lüdke to join him onstage for a redux duet of ‘Backdraft’.
Generous in spirit, as Stephen Groth took the curtain call with his band, he beckoned VILE ELECTRODES to join the ensemble on stage to accept the roaring approval of those all gathered at Essigfabrik.
Those hoping for a rendition of ‘Burning Heretic’ would have been slightly disappointed but overall, it was an exhilarating live presentation with superb sound quality providing a fine balance of power and clarity for all three acts.
Small in stature but big in stage presence, as Stephen Groth once said: “Take the red pill and join our ranks, the truth has its rewards!”
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its special thanks to Per Aksel Lundgreen
APOPTYGMA BERZERK + VILE ELECTRODES play Oslo Parkteatret on Saturday 24th August 2019
The previous albums of Swedish duo MACHINISTA, ‘Xenoglossy’ and ‘Garmonbozia’, each had terrific highlights but new long player ‘Anthropocene’ is their most consistent body of work yet.
Like a cross between THE CURE and ALPHAVILLE producing a fusion of synthpop and rock n roll, vocalist John Lindqwister and instrumentalist Richard Flow have added conventionally flavoured twists like guitars and cellos.
Refining their anthemic signature sound as well as reflecting today’s darker times, MACHINISTA’s gloomy club-friendly template went down a storm recently with the regulars at alternative club night Exit The Grey when the duo, accompanied by versatile guitarist Mattias Johansson, supported Mexican aggro-tech duo HOCICO at Electrowerkz in London.
While they were in the city, MACHINISTA chatted about the genesis of ‘Anthropocene’ and much more…
The ‘Anthropocene’ album has been a long time coming, are there any particular reasons?
Richard: Oh yes, many reasons for this. We did switch to a new label, so we had to work this out. I did a lot of remix-work for other bands as well as producer-work with the Swedish band PAGE. John has a bunch of side-projects as well he did work on and also we had a lot of focus on gigs during these years. But all this time we did record songs and released some singles as well. We did participate on several tribute albums, re-releases and stuff. Also private-life comes between sometimes so yeah this album took many years to finish for many reasons. You won´t need to wait years for the next release *laughs*
Did record companies have any bearing, because each MACHINISTA album has been released on a different label?
Richard: With our first label, there was some problems for sure. After that label closed down, we signed to UK based label Analoguetrash. We really liked that label, very kind people and easy to work with, but at the same time we started to play a lot more in Germany. Germany is really the best country for our kind of music so when we did get an offer from Infacted Recordings, we jumped on that train and it feels really good! The guys at Analoguetrash understood our situation and a chance for us to go in the direction we needed. We still have good contact with Analoguetrash so no hard feelings there.
Does a modern electronic pop band with a niche audience actually need a record label these days?
Richard: I guess not. It’s easy nowadays to do it by yourself and promote with YouTube, Facebook and all that. But at the same time, we are traditional when it comes to releasing physical CDs and that is so much easier with a label running all that for you. Also our current label Infacted Recordings is an established label in our genre with good connections when it comes to distribution, promotion and all that. Of course these days as a band you have to promote a lot by yourself to reach out, but with a label doing this work as well we can focus much more on the main thing, to record new songs!
While MACHINISTA lyrics have never been exactly cheerful, they have taken on a darker, almost fatalistic tone on this new album?
John: Actually it’s not a conscious thing that it ended up like that, haha! Maybe my brain has sucked up too much negative stuff listening on the radio every day. Well I write about dark stuff and difficulties in life, but I think I put hope in there as well. ‘Anthropocene’ indicates a rough image of the future but we can change that. I hope 😉
The overall sound has become harder, still electronic but with more guitars?
Richard: Yes that’s correct! From the start we never really had any rules when it comes to the sound. However, our first album had a lot synth-pop songs for sure. When we started to write songs for ‘Garmonbozia’, we wanted to go into a darker direction. Dark, moody songs are a lot more fun to write and make me more happy than sunny pop songs. During this time we also started to have a guitarist on stage and it fitted in a lot more to a harder, darker sound.
Norway’s APOPTYGMA BERZERK appears to have been a big influence?
Richard: Well, yeah you know I listen to a wide range of music and APOP has always been a favourite band. I like that Stephan Groth does whatever he wants every time they release a new album. No rules. It’s similar to what we do. Then of course they have a great back-catalogue of songs! MACHINISTA was also part of the APOPTYGMA BERZERK tribute album that was released some years ago.
The excellent ‘Anthropocene’ title song even slips in the haunting riff of APOP’s ‘Burning Heretic’?
Richard: Yes, it was meant to be a little “tribute” to that song in the intro of ‘Anthropocene’. From the beginning, it was almost identical but then I did change some of the notes.
Stephan Groth and MACHNISITA have developed a kinship over the last few years?
Richard: We have met a few times during the years. He did a remix of ‘Dark Heart Of Me’, I also did mastering for the APOPTYGMA BERZERK remix of the PAGE song ‘Krash’. Recently I did a solo-gig and performed a lot of cover-songs. Among them, the classic Apoptygma song ‘Eclipse’. Stephan was at this event so he joined me on stage on that one. Very good fun!
Despite the harder aesthetic, ‘Astrid’ is quite cinematic and orchestrated featuring the very talented Karin My on cello?
Richard: This song turned out really well! The original demo was more electronic but when John added the vocals, I heard something else in my head. I thought about for a long time to do a song a lot more like THE CURE, that alternative feeling and this one was perfect. Karin My is a brilliant musician and singer so we are really happy that she was part of this song. Also Mattias’ guitar-playing did add a new dimension to it.
Having previously covered ‘Heroes’, ‘Anthropocene’ closes with another Bowie connected cover in THE BEATLES ‘Across The Universe’?
John: I wanted to do that cos it’s good song and as a small homage to my mother who named me after him and her being a big fan. And I’m a universe kind of guy!
You like your cover versions, you have been doing FRONT 242 ‘No Shuffle’ at recent gigs?
Richard: Yes, THIS London-gig actually! ?
John: There have been so many covers, it has to stop ?
The guitar has entered the live fray as well, although what Mattias Johansson does is complimentary and not overplayed, one minute he’s Midge Ure, then he uses an E-bow and then, it’s like THE SISTERS OF MERCY! *laughs*
Richard: We are more than happy to have Mattias with us! He is a great guitarist and always comes up with great melodies and stuff. The trick is to add a guitar that blends in good to the original music. Mattias does this and more! Also a great and funny guy to hang with, so we all have very fun together.
‘Anthropocene’ is probably your most consistent body of work to date, which are your own favourite songs on it and why?
Richard: Hmm. that changes from day to day. At the moment I would say ‘Astrid’. That song turned out almost exactly the way I wanted.
What’s next for you, either individually or as MACHINISTA?
Richard: We will play in Copenhagen on 30th August at Elektroland, that will be a lot of fun! At the moment we are also working on new songs that feel really nice. The sound will take a step in a different direction. We are exploring new dark territories. It will still sound MACHINISTA of course ?
John: I have CAT RAPES DOG and we are going to do a few shows, plus there’s the new project I have with Jonas from TRAIN TO SPAIN called FOLK ÄR FOLK. And Flow is in the live set with us. That will be fun.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its grateful thanks to MACHINISTA
Like a cross between THE CURE and ALPHAVILLE, Swedish duo MACHINISTA are back with their third full-length album ‘Anthropocene’.
Vocalist John Lindqwister and instrumentalist Richard Flow have taken their time with this record and it’s all the better with a refinement of their anthemic signature sound plus the addition of some conventionally flavoured twists. In the album’s opening statement, ‘Seconds Minutes Hours’ offers a Eurodance triplet beefed up with guitars by BRD for more of that synthpop with a rock n roll edge which MACHINISTA have always prided themselves in.
Featuring a guest vocal appearance from PROJECT PITCHFORK’s Scheuber, ‘Let Darkness In’ is brilliant, taking its leaf from the dark electronic pop of Norway’s APOPTYGMA BERZERK; their main man Stephan Groth happily remixed 2015’s ‘Dark Heart Of Me’ and the APOP force looms even stronger on the album’s glorious ‘Anthropocene’ title song which owes more than a debt to the haunting riff of ‘Burning Heretic’ in the ultimate sorcerer’s apprentice spell.
‘Angel’ takes things down to scarf waving pace and adds piano to the counter melodies but it suddenly speeds up, aesthetic reinforced by percussive six string for some chantalong gothic disco. ‘Black Tide’ continues the mood but with a solemn disposition as per the title with Lindqwister giving his all with the Robert Smith stakes.
Singing of “darkness, despairs” and a “child of the golden age”, the chilling orchestrated cinematics of ‘Astrid’ are authentically supported by Karin My on cello while on ‘Universe Is Here’, the aesthetics can’t but help recall ‘The Policy Of Truth’ from the days when DEPECHE MODE combined their darkness with tuneful instrumental elements.
A stark observation on the human condition, ‘Pain Of Every Day’ with its poignant lyrics like “dying is certain… we die the same death” is probably one of the most poetically unsettling if danceable tracks of recent years, a sentiment also expressed in ‘The Scare’.
Back in 2013, MACHINISTA opened their account with a rousing cover of Bowie’s “Heroes”; and it is back to the Thin White Duke with a cover of THE BEATLES ‘Across The Universe’ which was covered on the ‘Young Americans’ album for the closer; it does sound exactly how you might imagine, like ALPHAVILLE doing John Lennon.
On ‘Anthropocene’, MACHINISTA have successfully integrated more traditional elements like guitar, piano and cello without throwing away their gloomy but club-friendly template. Their past EPs and albums have always had terrific highlights, but ‘Anthropocene’ is their most consistent body of work to date.
Reflecting darker times, listeners will however need to choose which songs to hear carefully dependent on their moods as much of the personal expression on this album is very heavy if realistic.
Norway has been a hotbed of electronic music based talent, be it A-HA, RÖYKSOPP, ANNIE or SUSANNE SUNDFØR.
One act with a heavier slant that can be added to that illustrious group is APOPTYGMA BERZERK who recently celebrated the 25th anniversary of their debut album ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ with a CD and double vinyl reissue remastered from its original tapes.
Essentially the solo artistic vehicle of Stephan Groth, APOPTYGMA BERZERK have straddled EBM, synthpop, futurepop, goth and alternative rock.
With biases depending on the Danish born singer and musician’s creative mindset, 2016’s ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ album caught many fans by surprise with its classic synth instrumental content.
No stranger to the cover versions, Groth’s sources have been eclectic to say the least, ranging from KIM WILDE to THE HOUSE OF LOVE with OMD and KRAFTWERK caught in between.
While a cult proposition in the UK, APOPTYGMA BERZERK have been favourites on the live circuit in Europe, North America, South America and Australia. This summer, they embark on live dates in Germany and their Norwegian homeland with the UK’s VILE ELECTRODES opening at selected shows.
During on a short visit to London, ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK caught up with Stephan Groth over brunch for an extensive career spanning chat.
You celebrated the 25th anniversary of your debut album ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ in 2018, how do you look back on it now?
Normally I don’t like to focus on my older stuff, I prefer to move on and concentrate on new adventures. I don’t like to look back, but on this album, it has really been fun. With the 25th anniversary, we remastered the album from the original tapes rather than from an old already mastered CD and I went to find my old tapes and files but most of it was ruined, my old floppy disc were moulded so many files were lost, so we had to recreate lots of things.
Going through those old files, demos, DATs with no song titles and listening, looking for bonus tracks, it was quite fun. 25 years is a pretty long time and I have to say, it’s a really good album…at the time I was young and hungry and had no clue what I was doing, but everything was fun. We wanted to conquer the world and it was a fun period of my life where I was super creative and it was exciting. You can really tell when you listen to it.
On the technology side, a lot has happened in the last 25 years so we were working with very limited equipment…we only had one synth, one sampler, one drum machine and we had to borrow synths that were only available in the studio, working in a totally different way to now. From all the limitations we had, it’s actually quite impressive what we got out of it. Today’s music with the software and all that where every 16 year old producer has everything available on his laptop, back in the day we had to use our imagination way more and be more creative than today. It’s been a long ride but it doesn’t seem like that.
What songs particularly still stand up for you today?
‘Burning Heretic’ and ‘Backdraft’ are probably the best two songs from the album, they’ve both become club classics in Germany and the US, and they have stood the test of time.
Who were APOP’s likes and influences?
I had more of an 80s synthpop taste, although I loved THE VELVET UNDERGROUND. But I was getting into the harder style of electronic music like THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT, FRONT 242 and NITZER EBB in the period 1987-1989. I liked German stuff such as releases by the Music Research and Zoth Ommog label, but I was never really into the American or Canadian stuff except PSYCHE and a little bit of FRONT LINE ASSEMBLY.
Was ‘Pretty Hate Machine’ by NINE INCH NAILS one?
Not really, it never really made it big in the electronic scene in Norway. I considered NIN an alternative rock act, not an electronic band and therefore probably wasn’t that interested in them. It’s a great album but something that I picked up on later.
Photo by Arvid Schanke Knutsen
Technologically what were you using then?
I had a Roland Juno 60, a Roland SH101 and an Ensoniq EPS sampler which cost a fortune! *laughs*
Samplers were so expensive at the time, 13 bit and mono, I maxed out the memory which was like, a megabyte! You couldn’t just fill up the RAM with (hundreds of) samples, you really had to work on truncating the samples and making them as small as possible to fit the memory.
Today if you sample an analogue synth, you can sample every key on the keyboard… back then, there wasn’t enough memory for that and you would sample one sound like say, a middle C which would sound great but it would get worse and worse and when you want down one octave, it would sound like sh*t. This old school way of sampling has become popular again the last few years. It is a very distinct sound that is hard to re-create on modern equipment. ut we had to use it like that and you can hear it in the songwriting, certain chords and the basslines, they were made according to sounds that were still “ok-sounding”.
It made a limitation chord-wise since we could only use a few notes up or down from the main sample key. It was a limited way to work but of course. After we made the demos at home on an Atari running either Cubase or Pro24 with 24 MIDI tracks which was insane, we went to the studio and recorded the album using the possibilities that were available. We had to be very clever and invent lots of work-arounds to make everything sound right.
How have your composition and production methods changed over the years from ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ to ‘Exit Popularity Contest’?
Back then, I had no clue what I was doing. I grew up in a musical family, my father was in a rock band and my mum was a DJ so I think I had some good genes. I never went to music school or got any professional training, but with 25 years of experience, you pick up a lot of stuff. Now I have a big studio compared with before.
The complexity is way ahead working with hundreds of tracks, dependent on the song, although on ‘Exit Popularity Contest’, some of the stuff only uses two tracks. Back in 1993, I had no idea what I’m doing now would even be possible. The technology has just rocketed.
But today, I’m going back on the sample quality because it adds those little artefacts and those accidental things that happened with lower quality samples, there’s the grittiness and something that is very pleasing to my ear. So I prefer the sounds to be either 100% analogue or when digital, a little gritty…
So what you’ve referring to is like you’ve been missing the “air” in your music?
The dynamic is very important, especially if you are working with drums and grooves, so for years we had the loudness war going on in mastering which I thought ruined music big time. That is also the reason why we chose to remaster ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ from the original tapes, we didn’t want to use the already compressed files and then compress them even more for the reissue. We wanted to get it all back dynamically but with brand new mastering using today’s technology.
Photo by Tarjei Krogh
Interestingly, you can actually see a musical link between say ‘Burning Heretic’ to ‘For Now We See Through A Glass, Darkly’ from ‘Exit Popularity Contest’…
You’re exactly right and on that track, it ends with a part from ‘Burning Heretic’ where the riff comes back in, I can’t remember why I did that…
Was it a statement despite ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ being an instrumental album that “this is me!”?
I just put the riff in there and thought “wow, this is perfect”, it was a way of connecting the old with new to make it full circle.
You’ve brought things up to date with remixes of tracks from ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ which you will issue as a double vinyl album ‘SDGXXV’, but you like to remix too, with recent reinterpretations on PAGE, MACHINISTA and PETER HEPPNER?
I’ve been remixing a lot of acts over the years, it’s a way of staying on top of the technical things and to stay creative when you are not doing anything else and it’s great fun. I get asked a lot but I don’t have the time to do all of them so I have to be a bit picky. I do it if there’s good money involved or if it’s a track I can really hear something… and instantly connect to it.
Like with MACHINSTA, it was a remix that happened because I wanted to include the song in my DJ sets. I asked if they had a more synthpop remix but they didn’t, they had one but it didn’t fit into my style. So they sent me the stems and I made a version and it turned out great.
PETER HEPPNER is huge in Germany, that was his label requesting a dance remix for his quadruple album that would work in the darker electro scene. So I wanted to make something that the old WOLFSHEIM fans would like, I found out who some of the other remixers were so I decided not to do it in a modern pop way but to do it in a more dark Italo HI-NRG style. I just made a groove for his legendary voice and it ended up becoming the shortest remix I’ve ever made and very to the point, in a “don’t bore us, let’s get to the chorus” way.
‘Kathy’s Song’ from 2000 is probably still APOP’s most known track, which came in remixes as diverse as Ferry Corsten and VNV NATION… how do you feel about all that now?
At that time, remixes were the most important promotional tool you had. We were on Tatra Records at the time, but soon after we got signed to East West. But ‘Kathy’s Song’ was also licensed to Polydor while in the US, it was put out by Metropolis and there was a UK label Above The Sky who commissioned local remixes, so there were ‘Kathy`s Song’ remixes all over the place and one even ended up on one of those ‘Welcome To Ibiza’ mix CDs! *laughs*
It was on so many formats, it was an underground club hit and the most important track in my catalogue, it benefitted us big time. People love it when we play it live and it’s a great pop song. What I did with the “robot” vocals was pretty clever, there had never really been a chorus that was sung by a machine to my knowledge. You`ll hear machines sing little bits and pieces in many electronic songs but never the main chorus.
The reason it’s called ‘Kathy’s Song’ is because it’s from the Mac OS voice called Kathy Macintosh, I did text to speech so my computer generated words, so it was never a vocal sample, the chorus is 100% computer generated.
I even ended up getting an email from Steve Jobs afterwards, I was on tour in the US and I met a guy at Apple HQ. I asked him “do you ever see Steve Jobs?” and replied that he went into the canteen sometimes, so I gave him a copy of the record. Months later, an email popped up from Steve Jobs, very polite and short saying thank you for the CD and how glad he was that Apple had a place in my heart. It was a hugely important track for me and has been paying my bills for many years 😉
In 2002, there was a second Duet Version of ‘Unicorn’ with Claudia Brücken, how did that come about?
It was an idea from my then-manager Markus Hartmann, he thought it would be good to have duet or guest appearance thing on the ‘Harmonizer’ album. It was a nod in the direction of German 80s synthpop, so to me it was sending a message to the people who know that we are on the right channel here, even though the music on the album is more 90s than 80s; ‘Something I Should Know’ is very 80s but the rest of the record is not like that.
It was Paul Humphreys of OMD doing the recording of Claudia’s vocals so I was quite starstruck by that! I loved her vocals and at the time, she hadn’t recorded in years so she was sort of brought out of oblivion.
Throughout the APOP albums, spiritualism is probably the most predominant feature?
It’s very important, I grew up in a Christian home so religion and spirituality has totally been normal and was talked about every day. Not only is it important in my own life, but it’s very interesting and abstract, just like art can be. Integrating this spiritual dimension into art makes total sense to me.
‘You & Me Against The World’ in 2006 introduced rockier textures into APOP’s sound and it was good. Bands like DE/VISION nearly lost their fan base with releases such as ‘Void’ or ‘Two’ which both swayed towards the rock genre. Didn’t happen to you…
A lot of people who were into electronic music for the sake of electronic music, they lost interest in APOP which was totally understandable. But the die-hard APOP fans, they got it… maybe it’s not their favourite album even though it’s by far our biggest record. There was still a clear and typical APOP thread in all the songs and in the melodies.
There were lots of guitar and on some tracks also acoustic drums, but also lots of synths. There was definitely a change of attitude and style, and I totally stopped using digital synths and “futurepop” elements, I think that was what freaked so many people out. In 2005 I got bored with dance music, so making a record aimed at the dancefloor was not something that I wanted to do.
So I thought about making something different, a more rock influenced album, although it’s not at all a typical “rock” album because it is still very electronic. But bringing in all the guitars and drums, electronic bands going rock was unusual at the time and a different animal. I did it and it worked out, it was a great success and I moved on from there.
A lot of people who mostly liked electronic music took a break from APOP at that point, but we recruited a lot of new people, and it was important that we got a younger generation in there to prolong my career. With the ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ reissue and ‘SDGXXV’ remixes, I’m sure that a lot of the old-school APOP fans are coming back. I like to be challenged, a lot of people just want me to make a new ‘Welcome To Earth’ every year, that’s never going to happen.
Before all this, after the ‘Harmonizer’ album, we toured Europe and the US for a whole year. I was totally worn out, sick and tired of music, sick and tired of APOP, and even electronic music. I needed a break to figure out why I started making music in the first place, I needed a good reason to get back in the saddle. The way I got back into music and particularly electronic music was going back to my attic, dusting off my old analogue synths.
During the ‘Harmonizer’ era, I was mostly working with plug-ins and VST instruments. That was great fun when it was all brand new and exciting, but I soon lost interest. I did a session there and came back to those “real” sounds and then it happened… it was fun to work in the studio again.
So that was how FAIRLIGHT CHILDREN came into being, it was this primitive naïve thing. I thought “I’m just going to write an album here” to get back in business. It was quite an important thing to help me get back into the APOP world and to rediscover my love for real instruments.
I grew up liking electro and hip-hop which is actually how I discovered KRAFTWERK… through Arthur Baker and ‘Planet Rock’. I like a good melody, I like good vocals, I have ears for a good pop song. If it’s made with guitars or made with electronics, it doesn’t matter. A good song is a good song.
So how would you advise DEPECHE MODE to get their act together as today, they are not a good rock band, and are no longer a good electronic band anymore? *laughs*
I think that DEPECHE MODE are probably doing exactly the right thing, they are selling out shows all the time, they are huge all over, especially in Germany, selling albums and filling stadiums on every tour. So if that is their goal, then they are doing everything just right. It looks to me as they are giving the fans exactly what they like…
I used to be very influenced by DM, but for many years I haven’t heard or seen anything from them that I like. It feels like they lost the inspiration somehow? To me they don’t seem excited about what they’re dong. They are one of the biggest bands on earth but they could have been so much more exciting, although putting out an album called ‘Exciter’ was a bit of an oxymoron! *laughs*
Depending on what the goal is, we talked about having fun but it does not seem like DEPECHE MODE are having fun. I think a good idea would be to get back to having fun again, like the title of that old B-side.
For those of us who are really interested in electronic music, we have outgrown them, DEPECHE MODE never really developed that much… OK they added some drums and had some great producers but they’ve not really been that experimental lately. And to me, experimenting is where the fun is… like on ‘Exit Popularity Contest’, now, that is fun!
OK, let’s talk about that album now… over the last couple of years we have been served with instrumental albums from BLANCMANGE and MG; but ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ sounds so superb that it beats everyone else hands down, it’s one of your best regardless of style…
My idea with ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ was like, you know when eating sushi, you have the ginger to clean the palette… this was me cleaning my palette. So I thought ok, let’s start all over again.
After putting out so many albums, the expectations from fans rise every time and that freaks me out. I don’t want to do what is expected of me. It is my duty as a creative artist to bring new and exciting things to my fans, not repeating myself.
I had not put out an album for years, and I felt that I needed to wake people up. Unfortunately today, for most bands, just putting out a new album is not enough to wake anybody up, people are busy with their lives and Facebook and other social media is eating up many peoples time. There is so much music being released every day, we are being totally flooded. Releasing ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ got APOP a lot of attention, but I didn’t wake as many people up as I’d hoped for.
You woke me up! *laughs*
Awesome 🙂
Actually we woke up a lot of the people we wanted to wake up!
So was your idea with the narrative, UFOs etc, did you feel you needed more imagination for, rather than just stamp lyrics to tell the story, or was it more to take the pressure off yourself artistically?
It was both… I think one of the reason people do those instrumental albums is to have a break, like doing remixes. You’re still being creative but it’s not as demanding and sucking all of your energy out like writing an album. Making an instrumental is more playful and abstract, so you can add more humour. It’s what art and music is supposed to be, adults playing really. The story behind ‘Exit Popularity Contest’ was loosely based on my own life, and personal stuff I was going through at the time. We then spiced it up with some conspiracy theories and elements from Lars von Trier’s brilliant ‘The Kingdom’ series.
Oscar Wilde said “Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth”, so it was easier to be honest while wearing a mask, so that whole story in the artwork is about me, but I’m pretending to be someone else. Like when you go to a psychiatrist and say “my friend is wondering about…”
…like “I have a friend who likes Taylor Swift, how can we help them?”*laughs*
It’s incurable! *laughs*
You’re partial to the occasional cover version like OMD’s ‘Electricity’ and KRAFTWERK’s ‘Ohm Sweet Ohm’ to more recently PETER SCHILLING’s ‘Major Tom’, what are your artistic or personal motivations with these?
‘Major Tom’ is a great song, insanely catchy and a very important song for me personally, as were all the other cover versions that we did, there’s an educational thing going on like a hint to my background.
If people want to understand APOP, it is crucial to know my roots and what kind of music inspired me to make music. We put out a compilation in 2006 with many of our cover-versions called ‘Sonic Diary’.
One of the reasons we did ‘Major Tom’ was we were opening for the German band UNHEILIG who are extremely huge there, they are like a softer very of RAMMSTEIN. It was a huge stadium tour in 2010, we would be playing every night to 15,000 people who were not interested in us… playing to 100 people who are not interested in us is bad enough! *laughs*
Photo by Krichan Wihlborg
I figured out I needed to connect to this audience but how was I going to do that? I had to do a song that all of them will know, a song that would tell people about who APOPTYGMA BERZERK are and what we are doing without making a speech. The original is in German but I don’t speak it, so we had to the English version which was a huge hit in the US.
So what we did and it worked out brilliant, was we had 15,000 people screaming along… we were singing it in English but they didn’t care and sang the chorus in German which was amazing! So we just stopped singing the choruses after a while and let the crowd go nuts!
That version was made just for that tour, but when it was over, the emails started coming and asking us to release ‘Major Tom’. I didn’t really want to do it, but there was demand and it was quite successful, we still play it live sometimes now and then, people love it with half the crowd singing in German and half in English. Although it’s a German song, it’s not actually very German sounding, it’s much more English I would say.
Looking back, your proudest achievement with APOP?
There’s been many but the Steve Jobs email was pretty cool. We also performed on the German ‘Top Of The Pops’ for a cover version of ‘Shine On’ by THE HOUSE OF LOVE which was a Top10 hit there. We performed before TOKIO HOTEL, have you heard of them?
NO! *laughs*
You have never heard of TOKIO HOTEL? I like you even more! *laughs*
Basically, they were like a boy band with an Emo twist and popular in the same era as the Finnish act HIM, they were one of the biggest acts to come out of Germany! It was the last German episode of ‘Top Of The Pops’ as well. It was a childhood dream so that was big… not to play with TOKIO HOTEL, but to be on ‘TOTP’ *laughs*
But my biggest highlight was I did a remix of NICO’s solo version of ‘All Tomorrow’s Parties’
Photo by Chi Ming Lai
What next for APOP, tours tours tours? And VILE ELECTRODES are on board with you too?
I’m doing shows in Germany, Belgium and Norway in the summer, I checked a few live clips of VILE ELECTRODES and their sound is so cool. Her voice is very true and real, and the analogue synth sounds are amazing, so we invited them to open for us. It’s very important to have a whole evening that makes sense and which will tell a story.
We’re going to release the ‘SDGXXV’ remix album in March, and I’m working on a regular APOP album with vocals as well as a follow-up to ‘Exit Popularity Contest’, so lots of stuff.
ELECTRICITYCLUB.CO.UK gives its warmest thanks to Stephan Groth
Special thanks to Per Aksel Lundgreen
‘Soli Deo Gloria’ is released by Tatra Records / Pitch Black Drive Productions (Europe) and Artoffact Records / Storming The Base (USA/Canada) as a 25th Anniversary LP and CD edition. The LP includes the original 13 tracks mastered from the original source tapes while on the CD version you get seven bonus tracks. Available from http://www.stormingthebase.com/ (USA / Canada) and https://www.brokensilence.de/ or http://www.poponaut.com/ (Europe)
The ‘Soli Deo Gloria’ reworked collection ‘SDGXXV’ is released as a double LP set in cornetto or smoked effect vinyl, cassette and CD on 22nd March 2019 by Artoffact Records / Storming The Base (USA / Canada), pre-order from https://apoptygmaberzerk.bandcamp.com/ and as a double LP set in translucent or green / black splatter, and CD via Tatra Records/Pitch Black Drive Productions (Europe) distributed via https://www.brokensilence.de/ – pre-orders and orders for both albums in Europe can be done via http://www.poponaut.com/
APOPTYGMA BERZERK 2019 live dates include:
Oberhausen E-Tropolis Festival (16th March), Hannover Capitol (15th August)*, Dresden Reithalle Strasse E (16th August)~, Cologne Essigfabrik (17th August)*~, W-Festival (18th August), Oslo Parkteatret (24th August)*
special guests *VILE ELECTRODES, ~THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT
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Was it always your intention to work solo in THE INVINCIBLE SPIRIT?
‘Coming Home’
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sees a return to the synthpop format.
album, ‘Deep Red’ kept the body strong with Angel adding power via his chunky flanged guitar, mutating into metal when necessary.
took the form of respite as Groth performed totally alone in a moody whispered Numan-esque manner, before ‘Dead Air Einz’ saw the band return for some steadfast Schaffel.
, the gothic rave of ‘Kathy’s Song’ with its call-and-response interplay between the Groth brothers maximised audience involvement, even during Kathy Macintosh’s Mac OS voice centrepiece.
to complete the main set; prompting a massed hands in the air moment, Stephan Groth even threw in a few Jim Kerr mannerisms during this slice of euphoric dystopia!
is released by Infacted Recordings in CD and digital formats, download available now from
album caught many fans by surprise with its classic synth instrumental content.
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